Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

['WellDel]

10 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I realise this is very much old man screams at cloud type stuff, but I actually think this is where some of our problems stem from. As much as Hanlon and Stevenson at Hibs, for example, at now more fringe elements of the playing squad, it's pretty clear they hold a fairly significant influence within the dressing room. We moved on from Craigan, Hammell, Lasley and even guys like Tait who had a reasonable spell here and feel quite a lot more waifs and strays than we have in a while. Numerous players have cited the influence of guys like Lasley off the field, and we just don't really have anyone like that on staff anymore.

It absolutely plays a part. Having players with a genuine connection and affinity to the club on the field leading the way helps push others on to give their all. That feeds into the stands and the fans feel a connection with the players.

If we were to end up in the play off this time around and with the general apathy a lot of fans are currently expressing, who do the fans really connect with that we can look to for that leadership to galvanise those both on the park and in the stands, who does the club really mean anything to other than collecting a wage? 

[eliphas]

Aye, I think we've lost the 'identity' we had for so long for a number of reasons. Some self inflicted, others not so. 

The likes of Hammell and Lasley sticking around for so long we were lucky with.  Not a huge amount of clubs had/have players of that decent standard kicking about from youth to end of career. Add in our fondness for returning players like Pearson and Hammell and it gave us a proper 'Motherwell' core for years. Chuck in a few other longer term serving good pros too and a couple of managers like McCall and Robbie who thrived on 'identity' and it was a good time. 

Burrows and Robinson really tried to keep that identity going by putting the likes of Hammell, Lasley, Faddy, Clarkson and even McManus into coaching positions. That kind of petered out through them all mostly being cherry picked by bigger clubs with bigger wages (McManus, Burrows himself), time running out (Robinson, Lasley, Hammell and their assistants) or positions that suited them better (Lasley again after he changed his mind on coaching, Faddy).  Add to the above promising youth players being cherry picked before they play a game, the youth system stalling under COVID, a couple of dodgy ma ager appointments and it's kind of easy to see how it's happened. 

It kind of plays into keeping Kettlewell around long term and the board sticking to their guns on that to start building new relationships and long term club identity. I'd have bulleted him after Ross County but maybe....maybe it will work out for the better.

Edited January 10 by eliphas

[Handsome_Devil]

11 minutes ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

Even after that, wee Al seemed a similar character to have around the club in terms of progressing through the youth sides, whilst now it seems the youth development is at  low ebb excluding lennon Miller. We could do with players who seriously buy into the club and stick around for more than 18 months.

For that we need the revolutionary policy of not signing players we want to punt after six months!

I have a feeling we hoped SOD would develop into that leading/connecting player - not like one of our own youths obviously but Aldred, Tait, Hartley showed you could step in and do it. 

It's clearly something we're missing now but not something you develop in a team overnight or can guarantee even if you can go out and buy it. We often look back to the Rangers playoff and consider that team had baws aplenty but lots of them* had landed us in the shit with August to December first.

*Other factors at play too ofc

[CoF]

Couldn't agree more with all the posts above, we were lucky to have these players at the heart of the club so long and I think it's a huge loss that we don't have similar in the dressing room now. However.... not meaning to piss on the glassy eyed nostalgia, it's easy to forget that the same group of players were often the scapegoats when things weren't going well. Even attempts to maintain our identity and give senior players a pathway into the backroom (a good thing imo) was seen by a decent chunk of the support as jobs for the boys type appointments. 

I agree with @eliphas that the club sticking by Kettlewell might, in part, be an attempt to build something more stable. They might see him as loyal and someone who wants a long-term project rather than jumping at the first opportunity. 

[Handsome_Devil]

29 minutes ago, CoF said:

I agree with @eliphas that the club sticking by Kettlewell might, in part, be an attempt to build something more stable. They might see him as loyal and someone who wants a long-term project rather than jumping at the first opportunity. 

If they see him as loyal enough to turn down double the salary at Hearts or England they'd be mental.

If there was interest in something like that from both parties (assuming he proves himself in the next months ofc), I wouldn't be completely against it. A legal eagle will know better but you could create a long-term contract with a two-sided break clause making it effectively prohibitive. You'd have exceptions (we're six points adrift at the bottom anytime or in the bottom two April/May, for an X-month window after finishing in the top four or winning a cup) otherwise the compo is eleventy billion pounds.

You're effectively putting a commitment on the token words both parties come out with that neither side will chuck it on a whim in the 90% window we're likely operating in.

The theoretical advantages are clear...in practice? f**k knows...one way to find out.

[thisGRAEME]

58 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I have a feeling we hoped SOD would develop into that leading/connecting player - not like one of our own youths obviously but Aldred, Tait, Hartley showed you could step in and do it. 

I'd say he is the stand-out candidate on that front at the moment, along with Paul McGinn who always seems an enormously level-headed and just fucking normal dude.

I'm not saying keep them around to stick out cones after they retire, but I dunno, some kind of consistency would help.

[ropy]

I think we have just made a case for extending Maguire’s contract. 

[capt_oats]

19 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I'd say he is the stand-out candidate on that front at the moment, along with Paul McGinn who always seems an enormously level-headed and just fucking normal dude.

I'm not saying keep them around to stick out cones after they retire, but I dunno, some kind of consistency would help.

Sort of adjacent to this but if SOD makes another 10 appearances then he'll have played more games for us than any of his other clubs.

Edited January 10 by capt_oats

[Handsome_Devil]

4 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I'd say he is the stand-out candidate on that front at the moment, along with Paul McGinn who always seems an enormously level-headed and just fucking normal dude.

I'm not saying keep them around to stick out cones after they retire, but I dunno, some kind of consistency would help.

I really like McGinn, he seems just like you say. I'd be retaining him if possible but I'm not convinced his personality leads him to being any more than competent in his own role.

SOD I really wanted to like on the other hand because he should have been exactly what we wanted...but it's just not worked out (to the level of his supposed wage at least) meaning the respect from the stands just isn't there.

[MurrayWell]

I like Paul McGinn and SOD, I actually think they both "get it" to an extent. 

McGinn seems like a great guy and I'd see value in keeping him for another season, we're a far better team with him than without imo. 

SOD certainly hasn't been consistent since arriving, but I do think he gets a harder time than most. Perhaps higher expectations from folk? By all accounts he stood up to Alexander's pish tactics, which was the view of the fans at the time. Also heard a hilarious rumour that he drew devil horns, an eye patch etc on a big picture of Tony Watt in the Tannadice tunnel, which is tremendous if true. Was apparently the first game up there after he left us, where Watt and Burrows exchanged ideas too. 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Just now, MurrayWell said:

SOD certainly hasn't been consistent since arriving, but I do think he gets a harder time than most. Perhaps higher expectations from folk? By all accounts he stood up to Alexander's pish tactics, which was the view of the fans at the time. Also heard a hilarious rumour that he drew devil horns, an eye patch etc on a big picture of Tony Watt in the Tannadice tunnel, which is tremendous if true. Was apparently the first game up there after he left us, where Watt and Burrows exchanged ideas too. 

 True or not, I think The Thread has peaked here.

[MurrayWell]

Just now, YassinMoutaouakil said:

 True or not, I think The Thread has peaked here.

Even if it's bollocks it's too good eh? 

[capt_oats]

Just now, MurrayWell said:

SOD certainly hasn't been consistent since arriving, but I do think he gets a harder time than most. Perhaps higher expectations from folk? By all accounts he stood up to Alexander's pish tactics, which was the view of the fans at the time. Also heard a hilarious rumour that he drew devil horns, an eye patch etc on a big picture of Tony Watt in the Tannadice tunnel, which is tremendous if true. Was apparently the first game up there after he left us, where Watt and Burrows exchanged ideas too. 

Tbh, I think there's a similar sort of energy around people's perception of SOD as there was McManus. Expectations vs Reality and all that.

There was also a narrative around the time he signed that "he didn't want to be here" largely because he'd left Killie with a view to a Championship move which fell through due to the Pandemic and signed a short term deal with us because he lives locally. As I said further up the thread that short term deal that subsequently led to him being 10 games shy of having played for us more than any of his other clubs.

I mean, that's not to say that he hasn't underperformed at times but if you're being fair we had three consecutive managers (Robinson, Alexander and Hammell) who didn't seem to have a clue what to do with him and play him as an orthodox full back while folk seemed genuinely confused as to how he was pocketing Grealish with when he was away with Scotland and Clarke had him playing as a wing-back.

[MurrayWell]

1 minute ago, capt_oats said:

Tbh, I think there's a similar sort of energy around people's perception of SOD as there was McManus. Expectations vs Reality and all that.

There was also a narrative around the time he signed that "he didn't want to be here" largely because he'd left Killie with a view to a Championship move which fell through due to the Pandemic and signed a short term deal with us because he lives locally. As I said further up the thread that short term deal that subsequently led to him being 10 games shy of having played for us more than any of his other clubs.

I mean, that's not to say that he hasn't underperformed at times but if you're being fair we had three consecutive managers (Robinson, Alexander and Hammell) who didn't seem to have a clue what to do with him and play him as an orthodox full back while folk seemed genuinely confused as to how he was pocketing Grealish with when he was away with Scotland and Clarke had him playing as a wing-back.

100 per cent. I don't think a revolving door of managers will have helped anyone find consistent form. 

Like I said, I've always liked SOD and not really sure why he seems to get a bit more heat than others when the team is underperforming. 

[Doctor Manhattan]

22 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Also heard a hilarious rumour that he drew devil horns, an eye patch etc on a big picture of Tony Watt in the Tannadice tunnel

20 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

 True or not, I think The Thread has peaked here.

Unless that "etc" includes a big, hairy spunking willy, The Thread must stay open.

[Allroy for Prez]

Dundee Utd have signed Wotherspoon from St Johnstone and Alex Grieve from St Mirren (end of season loan)

I’d have taken both of them for us, although I dare say we can’t afford to pay them whatever Utd are chucking at them. 

[MurrayWell]

1 minute ago, Allroy for Prez said:

Dundee Utd have signed Wotherspoon from St Johnstone and Alex Grieve from St Mirren (end of season loan)

I’d have taken both of them for us, although I dare say we can’t afford to pay them whatever Utd are chucking at them. 

By the sounds of it Dundee United probably can't afford what they're paying them either...

FWIW I wouldn't have taken either of them at this moment in time, and if we announced the signing of a striker on loan from St Mirren, sections of the support would go into absolute meltdown. 

[MP_MFC]

Deary me. 

I'd have taken Wotherspoon about 5 year ago and Grieve would be good at maybe putting cones out at training but other than that, if that is the level we would be happy with we should start prepping for visiting East End Park next year.

[capt_oats]

5 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

By the sounds of it Dundee United probably can't afford what they're paying them either...

FWIW I wouldn't have taken either of them at this moment in time, and if we announced the signing of a striker on loan from St Mirren, sections of the support would go into absolute meltdown. 

Aye.

I'm sure a laddie who can't get into the St Mirren team and has 9 in 76 appearances for them would have been welcomed with open arms by our support.

[capt_oats]

The 'quirky' video has gone live then...

Edited January 10 by capt_oats