wellboy1991 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 42 minutes ago, MurrayWell said: I'm sure he is decent in training aye, but for me it's more that he has been good previously, so perhaps a case of sticking with him in the hope that form returns. He's been rotten this season though. I don't think there is any conspiracy to it either. We've not seen enough from Oxborough to know if he'd actually be any better, so not really sure I'm on board with the calls for him to be our number 1 now. That’s the problem we haven’t seen enough as we haven’t had a chance. However my position on this is clear, what has Kelly done this season that Ox potentially could not have done. What does Kelly provide that another keeper couldn’t. I genuinely can’t find an answer to this. One game to Celtic, maybe St Mirren aside, he hasn’t put in any wonder saves, hasn’t saved us points, hasn’t won us games, doesn’t have great delivery that speeds up play, isn’t great with crosses. In fact to me it’s the exact polar opposite, has cost us games, cost us cup ties, gives a nervousness to the crowd. Oxborough doesn’t exactly have a high bar to replace. He could come in and be shit, throw the ball in the net, drop a cross, make us nervous. But so, that’s what we have. He could come in and be outstanding, great at cross balls, better with the ball at his feet, make some great saves. We don’t know until he gets a shot. However, he’s a good character in the dressing room eh, has good integrity and knows when he’s shit eh. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well fan for life Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) Oxborough the latest victim of The Luke Watt Paradox. The more he doesn't play, the better he gets. Give it til April and we'll be having him as the next Buffon. Edited February 12 by well fan for life 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Oxborough is about 26 and hasnt played 50 senior games in his career. Theres a very, very, high chance hes absolutely dogshit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellboy1991 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 FFS Oxborough is only being talked about as guess what, he’s the only other goalie we have. I would be saying the same about the lad Connelly, bloody Chapman if he was our number 2, Dan Twardzik or Craig Samson if he was at our club. Are we meant to just accept Kelly and his multiple faults all as a result if not having a clue about our 2nd choice. Get a fucking grip. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) Not going to pretend that this was what I was thinking at about 9pm in Greenock on Friday but the Morton game is the first time in 2 months that both manager and team simply haven't turned up in at all. That was a run of 9 games after the County loss where we only lost once, to Rangers. Even the actually good Motherwell teams rarely go ten without some sort of massively disappointing and humiliating showing. We should never really be losing to Championship teams but Morton are on a pretty mental run and probably aren't massively weaker than Livi, Ross County or St Johnstone. If we'd lost to any of them in the most recent league games but won 5-0 at Cappielow it'd probably be worse for our season as a whole but I don't think would have resulted in the same sort of inquest. Sort of jumping on Casagolda's point but I think it's the same sort of logic that always led to folk wanting the entire backroom staff sacked whenever we lost to Accies but not Inverness or Partick Thistle or whoever when they were all in the league. Edited February 12 by YassinMoutaouakil 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_oats Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, well fan for life said: I'm not angry about Friday night. But even the mere mention of that game when they had been relegated to league 2 and we were literally top of the league and McCall had us shitting the bed from about a week before the game gets my blood gently simmering. Never forget. Edited February 12 by capt_oats 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antiochas III Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 3 minutes ago, capt_oats said: Never forget. Then... 14 months later he overseen us losing to Albion Rovers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desp Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, Antiochas III said: Then... 14 months later he overseen us losing to Albion Rovers. Still maintain he should've been sacked for that. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) 3 hours ago, wellboy1991 said: FFS Oxborough is only being talked about as guess what, he’s the only other goalie we have. I would be saying the same about the lad Connelly, bloody Chapman if he was our number 2, Dan Twardzik or Craig Samson if he was at our club. Are we meant to just accept Kelly and his multiple faults all as a result if not having a clue about our 2nd choice. Get a fucking grip. This is where I am at. I think we can all assume that Oxborough is not any better than Kelly or even on a par with him as otherwise surely he would get a chance. This however is rather unfortunate recruitment if we have somehow signed a back up goalie on reasonable wages who cannot get at least one opportunity to play in the league this season. In some ways it is admirable that Ketts sticks by his Captain and tells everyone what he is capable of. The problem is his form is really poor this season. The stats make that perfectly clear. His decent performances are heavily outweighed by games where he is failing to do even basic goalkeeping. I watched some of the St Mirren v Celtic game and at least on 3 occasions St Mirren put the ball right on the goal line and Hart managed on each occasion to get a fist to the cross and punch away to safety. And I don’t particularly rate Hart. We may still have gone on to lose the cup game, but make no mistake losing the 1st goal helped set the tone for what followed. Yes I accept that the rest of the team (including the Manager) hardly stepped up that evening either. The press conference suggests he is not going to drop Kelly this midweek. Shame. He could do with a stint on the bench. I would rather find out that Oxborough is dog meat than watch Kelly throw one in or continue his poor form which could cost us yet again. And if that does happen you cannot say the Manager was not forewarned. Edited February 12 by welldaft 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevie Kirk Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 My own feeling is that SK’s hand hasn’t quite been forced - yet- on the goalie situation. He will know fine well Kelly is in last chance saloon with the support ( or in the car park behind said saloon getting a kicking). I don’t believe he never checks social media. However if Kelly chucks in another howling performance on Wednesday I expect SK will simply have to make a change as it will get to the self preservation stage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I get the Luke Watt paradox and we’ve seen it plenty of times over the years but my only note of caution is any assumption that Kettlewells judgement on players is infallible runs into the rocks as soon as you think of Connor Wilkinson playing in midfield while Davor was sitting with skelfs in his arse. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welldaft Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, Stevie Kirk said: My own feeling is that SK’s hand hasn’t quite been forced - yet- on the goalie situation. He will know fine well Kelly is in last chance saloon with the support ( or in the car park behind said saloon getting a kicking). I don’t believe he never checks social media. However if Kelly chucks in another howling performance on Wednesday I expect SK will simply have to make a change as it will get to the self preservation stage. The big Q is what will it take to force his hand ? I have been a vocal supporter of Kettlewell. But if he is not willing to make a difficult but obvious change then I would start to wonder if he is the answer going forwards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'WellDel Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 10 minutes ago, welldaft said: The big Q is what will it take to force his hand ? I have been a vocal supporter of Kettlewell. But if he is not willing to make a difficult but obvious change then I would start to wonder if he is the answer going forwards. He won't. He's not. Come May he should hopefully have done enough to keep us up, then it should be thanks and on your way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well again Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 10/02/2024 at 00:59, Big John Handsome said: Could see that result tonight coming a mile away. Ever since Robinson left I've expected nothing from games like this, however I don't know what has to change in order for us to not shit the bed in cup games. Only thing that concerns me in the last few games is the use / lack of subs, saying to my dad the other night that Kettlewell seems inept when it comings to changing things up in a game. I mean, Obika instead of Nicholson?? And against county I would have had some debutants on at the hour mark, get them up to speed instead of flinging them on away to Morton looking to get back in a game. Final point, hopefully Kelly doesn't get a new contract, having been blessed with some top keepers over the years he really is the worst I've seen in a long time in a well top. Anyone else find it counter productive having a keeper as captain? If it was me I'd have someone in defence/midfield who's more able to dictate the game 2 hours ago, welldaft said: This is where I am at. I think we can all assume that Oxborough is not any better than Kelly or even on a par with him as otherwise surely he would get a chance. This however is rather unfortunate recruitment if we have somehow signed a back up goalie on reasonable wages who cannot get at least one opportunity to play in the league this season. In some ways it is admirable that Ketts sticks by his Captain and tells everyone what he is capable of. The problem is his form is really poor this season. The stats make that perfectly clear. His decent performances are heavily outweighed by games where he is failing to do even basic goalkeeping. I watched some of the St Mirren v Celtic game and at least on 3 occasions St Mirren put the ball right on the goal line and Hart managed on each occasion to get a fist to the cross and punch away to safety. And I don’t particularly rate Hart. We may still have gone on to lose the cup game, but make no mistake losing the 1st goal helped set the tone for what followed. Yes I accept that the rest of the team (including the Manager) hardly stepped up that evening either. The press conference suggests he is not going to drop Kelly this midweek. Shame. He could do with a stint on the bench. I would rather find out that Oxborough is dog meat than watch Kelly throw one in or continue his poor form which could cost us yet again. And if that does happen you cannot say the Manager was not forew Oxborough has been at the club longer than kettlewell has been manager . If he has no confidence in him he has had two transfer windows to solve this problem, that is down to him . If Kelly is such a big influence in the dressing room then that's where he should stay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelyDosser Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Keeping us up in 2 difficult seasons with so much financial constraints and making a player out of Bair isn't too bad a cv tbh. The conversion of signings, and winless run however overshadows everything. Definite refresh for next season needed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quatermass Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) I think it might suit Kettlewell himself to walk away if he keeps us up. He’s guaranteed a fresh start somewhere else with no baggage which he arguably has with us now (3 in 22). Admittedly, it could be at someone like Morton, Thistle etc. but I reckon he will have impressed enough people in the know within the game for him to be seen as a viable option for quite a few Clubs. I’m just convinced he’ll be with a team at a lower level than wherever we end up. Whether he is successful enough to be employed 18 months later is another debate and probably not one we’ll over concern ourselves with. Edited February 12 by Quatermass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handsome_Devil Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) I'm not especially desperate to keep SK but I'm not eager to chase him either...aside from the obvious delay to preparing next season: Literally everyone wants to stop rattling through managers. Virtually everyone would agree with the theory of building something over more than a season if we can. The practice of that is not writing someone off after one dodgy summer window and a tough season almost everyone saw coming anyway and giving him a chance to learn from mistakes. I'm not predicting SK will lead us to glory next season by any means but when twisting has a barely better than 50-50 chance I'm not against sticking for once and seeing how that goes. Edit to add: obviously depending on a respectable end to the season. Edited February 12 by Handsome_Devil 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Kettlewell and Kelly can GTF in the summer. I'm done with them both. Kelly has made many more mistakes than Stevie Woods ever did. There are still some comments out there defending Kelly. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allroy for Prez Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Not getting my hopes up but this would be my team v the sheep Oxborough McGinn Casey Blaney Devine Davor Halliday Gent Spittal Nicholson Vale Chances of that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YassinMoutaouakil Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 For me, I don't think washing our hands of Kettlewell is as easy it would be to look at e.g, a goalkeeper or club captain who had served the club reasonably well for a few years but was now out of contract and would probably do everybody a favour by moving on. With a manager I think you probably do have to take extenuating circumstances into account- IF Kettlewell gets us to 10th or above, I think you probably have to say that he's met most of our pre-season expectations and has at least proven himself to be a semi-competent Premiership manager over that period. In that situation I think you're probably better sticking with the guy who has at least spent a year clearing the decks and will be a bit more ahead in terms of planning for next season than we would be if we rolled the dice and appointed someone else in June. McInnes obviously has much more of a track record but still finished 10th with Killie last season and they're seeing the benefits of sticking with him. Even County would probably be in a better position if they hadn't sacked Malky. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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