Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[StAndrew7]

3 minutes ago, Busta Nut said:

Welcome. what's your thoughts on curries and paneer?

Curries are nice. Paneer has its moments. I wouldn't combine the two unless absolutely stuck for a base protein for my curry.

[Vietnam91]

Long time lurker, was at the AGM tonight and asked a few questions. I missed quite a lot, I'm now deaf following on from my covid coma and world media interest.

SK is likeable, professional and willing to hold his hands up and humble to admit he is still learning, almost an anti-Hammell. I suspect many overlook and need reminded he is 39.

I asked him about his record since St Mirren in mid-September: 24 games in all competitions, 2 of which lower league, 1 no score draw, 18x the opposition scored first usually in the first 25-30 mins. In 4 out of every 5 games we are essentially handicapped. None of those 18 we turned into wins and the polar opposite of his start to his tenure. He said he had tried all sorts of thing to mix up the pre match routine, among a lot of other stuff but it was a concern and was well aware and spirited comeback to get draws helped. He said he though he cracked the nut at Pittodrie, before wincing.

It was confirmed none of our squad have signed PCA's however I was later told the players do not necessarily have to advise the club if they had. KVV was out of reach (not a surprise), our injuries have mostly been freaks or in the last minute of training. Still to receive a penny of our development compensation.

With respect to the video and interest generated. There are two advanced deals on the table (and 3 percolating). I among others were not impressed with the information they could share and the desire for controlling interest, however appreciate full details may come in time. However, there may be no point if the WS board feels it is so tainted it would be folly to even put for a vote. It was stated both parties motivation is a purely financial return, not altruism, raising PR or any other motivators. For me and many others, to sign away WS stewardship, well, it needs to be a transformational financial investment. Sean who sits on the WS board stood out for me and made a number of reasonable points. The first being the WS should be given a chance to suggest and implement ways to plug the poor season shortfall (£750,000). The WS was given new direction and vigour after the most recent elections which is fair. It was also reasonable to anticipate others may approach us, more favourable and aligned with working in tandem with a fan owned model.

Not discussed but it is worth remembering that in the last 2 seasons, a bit of acumen against 3 lower league sides (Sligo, Raith Rovers and Morton) would have resulted in combined revenues over £1m but probably closer to £1.5m. That goes a long way to plugging shortfalls.

[StAndrew7]

Just now, Handsome_Devil said:

As fun as going Aussie would be, relying on taking the same data and tools available to everyone else and continually producing better results than everyone else is a stupid strategy. Being a farm for players from their region is much more realistic - combined with our own youth system arguably not that different to what we do now.

The US strategy interests me more because it seems obvious to me that off the pitch is where we're more likely to make a difference.. whether that particular plan is how we can best do so, less convinced.

I think that's the crux of it for me; I'd need to understand far more about the Aussie bid and what the (to use a wanky MBA term) competitive advantage is over others.

I'd like to see more details from both parties if we can, I understand that the details that can be provided right now are very high-level due to the nature of the discussions and what, I imagine, are NDAs regarding some aspects.

[capt_oats]

24 minutes ago, StAndrew7 said:

That was my post, apologies; I kept adding stuff as it came to me. Was quite the tome in the end...

Finally bit the bullet and signed up here. 

Don't apologise. You wrote it up and there's far more detail than an idiot like me would post so I appreciate being able to crib your post.

Welcome btw.

[Quatermass]

No wonder Kettlewell has been cool as ice in post match interviews with a league record of 2 wins in the last 22 games. He knew for a FACT that with a wee secret one year extension tagged on to his contract we couldn’t afford to ditch him. Remember the media had Lennon lined up as a potential new gaffer about three months ago? This is how much Kettlewell’s contract has been kept under wraps. Anyone with half an eye on our finances would have known if his contract lasted longer than the summer he was never going. Financially impossible.

As far as I can see we have played 33 games this season and won 10. A win percentage of just over 30%. Not shabby. However, five of those wins have been against lower league opposition in the Cup. Just looking at the league this season he has a win percentage of just over 19%. That’s poor.

The stats the Club are peddling today are good……..but they are getting boosted by wins in the League Cup group stages. As well as a good start……that can’t be taken away from him but his numbers have been rank for about 6 months now. Half his managerial reign.

Has anyone clarified if he keeps us up this year that another year isn’t added again? Nothing would surprise me at this point.

 

[welldaft]

28 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I have a good feeling about the Australians. We're winning the league. 

That made me laugh more than it should .

Reading between the lines we are quickly running out of money. Which is a big worry. Also means the Morton cup loss was more problematic than it ought to have been. Certainly calls into question the necessity of spending £1m on the pitch. I am sure there were lower cost options that would have improved the surface.

I don’t like the sound of either potential investor as described previously. Both scenarios are unlikely to work to the desired effect that anyone would see any type of return. 

It sounds like difficult decisions need to be made in terms of where cuts can be applied to safe guard the future. The ladies team and the Academy seem like obvious options. Both would be met with obvious angst. But let’s be honest any kid with any promise seems to be snapped up for peanuts by the bigger clubs long before we can realise a proper transfer fee. Bailey Rice being a case in point. 

Interesting times. 

[RandomGuy.]

44 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

But if not, it's a firm no thanks from me, even if that means we accept Championship football.

Isnt this idea, of dropping a division/having a shit team, but keeping the same support level in terms of fan donations, as much "pie in the sky" as thinking someone will come in from outside and not kill the club?

Fans are fickle as f**k, and it would be interesting to see how many "im not giving another penny to that shite" people would walk away when things got properly tough.

[craigkillie]

There didn't seem to be much impact on our crowds or the general feeling amongst our supporters when we got relegated, and I feel like it would be the same for Motherwell - there's likely a bit of a sense of being "due" it at some point. The problems start if you don't come straight back up I'd say.

[boozyBJ]

We’ll all be junior football teams in 20 years time anyway, when all the rich teams break away into European superleagues, so may as well make hay while the sun shines, get the Yanks or Aussies in pronto. 
 

[Mr. Brightside]

And the crowd went mild

[JayMFC]

11 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

There didn't seem to be much impact on our crowds or the general feeling amongst our supporters when we got relegated, and I feel like it would be the same for Motherwell - there's likely a bit of a sense of being "due" it at some point. The problems start if you don't come straight back up I'd say.

The "due it" point is huge for me. I was born in November '85 - Motherwell were promoted in the May of that year, so we've never been out of the top flight my entire life. Whether we get wonderful, transformational investment or not, I don't believe for a second I'm seeing out the rest of my days never experiencing relegation.

Completely agree the actual issue is around coming back up, but the way in which relegation is pointed to as though it's the end of the world as we know it I think is slightly misguided, because I fully expect it to happen at some point in the near future regardless.

Edited February 22 by JayMFC

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

There didn't seem to be much impact on our crowds or the general feeling amongst our supporters when we got relegated, and I feel like it would be the same for Motherwell - there's likely a bit of a sense of being "due" it at some point. The problems start if you don't come straight back up I'd say.

Aye. At the start its exciting and fresh to be in a new division, and fans will be excited by being in a title race.

If you get stuck down there though, it becomes an absolute fucking slog.

I feel like one restraint of fan ownership, with no external investment, for clubs up here might be that itll always end up matching the level youre at, but im maybe just under estimating the support of other clubs tbh.

[capt_oats]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Brightside said:

And the crowd went mild

Absolutely gone at that btw.

Possibly the first contract extension that's announced by way of an apology.

[StAndrew7]

43 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

Long time lurker, was at the AGM tonight and asked a few questions. I missed quite a lot, I'm now deaf following on from my covid coma and world media interest.

SK is likeable, professional and willing to hold his hands up and humble to admit he is still learning, almost an anti-Hammell. I suspect many overlook and need reminded he is 39.

I asked him about his record since St Mirren in mid-September: 24 games in all competitions, 2 of which lower league, 1 no score draw, 18x the opposition scored first usually in the first 25-30 mins. In 4 out of every 5 games we are essentially handicapped. None of those 18 we turned into wins and the polar opposite of his start to his tenure. He said he had tried all sorts of thing to mix up the pre match routine, among a lot of other stuff but it was a concern and was well aware and spirited comeback to get draws helped. He said he though he cracked the nut at Pittodrie, before wincing.

It was confirmed none of our squad have signed PCA's however I was later told the players do not necessarily have to advise the club if they had. KVV was out of reach (not a surprise), our injuries have mostly been freaks or in the last minute of training. Still to receive a penny of our development compensation.

With respect to the video and interest generated. There are two advanced deals on the table (and 3 percolating). I among others were not impressed with the information they could share and the desire for controlling interest, however appreciate full details may come in time. However, there may be no point if the WS board feels it is so tainted it would be folly to even put for a vote. It was stated both parties motivation is a purely financial return, not altruism, raising PR or any other motivators. For me and many others, to sign away WS stewardship, well, it needs to be a transformational financial investment. Sean who sits on the WS board stood out for me and made a number of reasonable points. The first being the WS should be given a chance to suggest and implement ways to plug the poor season shortfall (£750,000). The WS was given new direction and vigour after the most recent elections which is fair. It was also reasonable to anticipate others may approach us, more favourable and aligned with working in tandem with a fan owned model.

Not discussed but it is worth remembering that in the last 2 seasons, a bit of acumen against 3 lower league sides (Sligo, Raith Rovers and Morton) would have resulted in combined revenues over £1m but probably closer to £1.5m. That goes a long way to plugging shortfalls.

I just remembered some of the discussions around signings, getting a striker in etc. (the search for which hasn't stopped, they did say that something might be happening shortly on that if I recall correctly); Derek Weir said that he, Kettlewell and Daws were phoning clubs at 10pm on Deadline Day looking for players and were laughed at when we offered them terms. National League sides are bidding significantly more money than we are right now for wages. That worries me a fair bit; it does show how important investment (in whatever form that takes) to bolster the coffers and help Kettlewell build a squad in the summer is key to next season and our future.

Weir mentioned he'd spoken with Daws re: next season and if the budget remains where it is (£3million/season for football side) he thinks we'd struggle to build a squad given how much the cost is increasing.

Edited February 22 by StAndrew7
Grammar

[Vietnam91]

1 hour ago, thisGRAEME said:

This is why I voted Jay, tbh.

I think a number of us need to recognise Jay's influence and drive for greater democracy, transparency and most importantly getting the changes to the structure of the WS Board. This is key to where we shall find ourselves at present and importantly not accepting the wrong proposal. He did this when he was very much outnumbered on the board by the old guard but with sound and well crafted reasoning as evidenced by his posts on here, plus because it was just the right thing to do, he drove change which allowed the election in October. He is pretty humble. I hope he don't mind me sharing his level of frustration at times and seriously considered his ongoing participation. However, he didn't relent and I for one am very grateful for it and so should many who were unaware.

Fan participation is directly increased in times of great success or impending doom. That's how we get 18,000 at Hampden or entities like Well Worth Saving and the Trust. I have attended the last few WS workflow meetings Jay references and sadly at my first I was one of 6 fans in attendance. There is a further one due on fundraising and events and I'd urge anyone reading this who can offer anything to this or any of the others to please step up and be counted.

It does seem we're in a bit of flux a present. Our interim CEO walking in 5 weeks, potential investors potentially wanting to install their own management team, however may have to source our own CEO but can't guarantee job security (for reason above), Chairman and one further director outgoing, board expanded to no less then 6 and no greater than 8 (from 4 at present). New WS board full of vigour and itching to implement new ideas while conversely potentially facing the prospect of approaching the membership to vote on ceding control. 

Aside from this, I recently tried to purchase an ordinary share in the club for a friend as a gift. These are a negligible percentage share so have zero effect regardless of where we are at present with looking for investment. Holding one gives the owner access to the published accounts and AGM, increases greater fan involvement and a delightful buffet. Despite purchasing them not being an issue for years and years the WS has decided to no longer issue them. I have asked for justification for this as it seems to go against their remit and stated priorities. Many more could have access to yesterday's meeting which can only be healthy for the lifeblood of the club and be more democratic. It is being looked at presently so I would ask any of you motived to voice your support to regain access to these by writing to wellsociety@motherwellfc.co.uk as it would be hard to ignore a groundswell of support.

Edited February 22 by Vietnam91

[Desp]

11 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

I think a number of us need to recognise Jay's influence

Do we need to?  

[JayMFC]

15 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

I think a number of us need to recognise Jay's influence and drive for greater democracy, transparency and most importantly getting the changes to the structure of the WS Board. This is key to where we shall find ourselves at present and importantly not accepting the wrong proposal. He did this when he was very much outnumbered on the board by the old guard but with sound and well crafted reasoning as evidenced by his posts on here, plus because it was just the right thing to do, he drove change which allowed the election in October. He is pretty humble. I hope he don't mind me sharing his level of frustration at times and seriously considered his ongoing participation. However, he didn't relent and I for one am very grateful for it and so should many who were unaware.

I couldn't possibly comment.

2 minutes ago, Desp said:

Do we need to?  

Only if you ever want back into Thursday 7s.

[Handsome_Devil]

50 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Isnt this idea, of dropping a division/having a shit team, but keeping the same support level in terms of fan donations, as much "pie in the sky" as thinking someone will come in from outside and not kill the club?

Fans are fickle as f**k, and it would be interesting to see how many "im not giving another penny to that shite" people would walk away when things got properly tough.

If we're down more than a season or two then aye, absolutely, but tbh if anyone doesn't want to go any more that's their choice. I certainly wouldn't be indulging any wild investment bets simply because our crowds will slump if our natural level turns out to be the championship.

[Desp]

2 minutes ago, JayMFC said:

Only if you ever want back into Thursday 7s.

Me on a Thursday night, refusing to recognise Jay's influence.

 

[Vietnam91]

8 minutes ago, Desp said:

Do we need to?  

Yeah, start the crowdfunder for the statue