Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[MurrayWell]

The handball rule is beyond terrible now, makes nae sense and is ruining games on a weekly basis. 

On Kettlewell, I think he's shown he's a good coach and solid at man management but, I think it's fair to say, a tactical genius, he ain't.

Might have been @crazylegsjoe (apologies if it wasn't you) who said a few weeks back, Kettlewell is absolutely fine when he can't overthink it. McGinn at LWB worked at Ibrox but wasn't the choice today (FWIW I'd have had him back in the back three). Just seems like Kettlewell makes things unnecessary difficult for himself at times. Easy for fans to say I suppose, but it looks like he repeatedly ties himself in knots with trying to be too clever. 

That being said, imo folk do need to gee him a bit of a break though, was a frustrating afternoon and result but overall we do seem to have turned a bit of a corner recently.  

Edited March 17 by MurrayWell

[Cloontang]

It honestly seems like they're just making it up as they go with VAR which makes it all the more frustrating. The handball versus County earlier in the season the guy has his hand up by his head, if he doesn't handle then it goes out for a goal kick but instead he sets it up nicely for Brophy to score. We are then told that it's only the scorer that can be penalised in such instances. It's actually really frustrating paying a premium for something that's made our game less enjoyable. Since the introduction of VAR that's not the first time we have been told one thing only to be told different further down the line. 

We have done well scoring this year, but it's funny how we have struggled to score against a pish County, Livi and Aberdeen. We did however miss some glorious chances yesterday. It's a shame about the performance in general as we we played some tremendous and enjoyable stuff before the break against Celtic, Livi and Rangers. 

 

 

[Gianfranco]

There was loads to be annoyed about yesterday.

The bizarre choice of the starting wing backs. 

Thinking that midfield 3 were going to do the dirty work required off the ball.

Subbing on the two youngsters when Davor and Moses are available.

Questionable refereeing decisions. 

Only 3 minutes of injury time. I was expecting 7 plus. 

Ross County winning.

Having to wait two weeks again before another game to get this one out our system. 

[Handsome_Devil]

10 hours ago, ropy said:

Bair’s shot at the near post was followed by Halliday throwing his arms in the air as if he had a tap in, he would have sclaffed it in the unlikely event that a pass had been successful.

Halliday was at it there tbf, you see on the replay a pass was never on and Bair was right to shoot.

[ropy]

Will the referee chief even speak to Kettlewell this time?  He can only contradict himself or offer a pointless apology.

I have long held the belief that our players should be qualified referees, every other occupation send their workforce on courses, whether it is to learn Excel or pick up some professional certificate.  This should be especially true for boys coming through the academy.  It would mean that our players understood the rules/laws which is no bad thing but in particular they would be able to use the language on the pitch in discussion with the referee that is used in referee circles.

If the referee hears a situation described as they have heard it in their training are they more likely to think twice about waving away a claim?

 

[Handsome_Devil]

33 minutes ago, ropy said:

Will the referee chief even speak to Kettlewell this time?  He can only contradict himself or offer a pointless apology.

I imagine the explanation will be the County guy was an accident as he miscontrolled it on his arm, Bair 'deliberately' gained an advantage by handling directly having made himself bigger.

Tbh as much as you can be annoyed at the officials for yesterday (and in that context the Bair foul is understandable, not looking at Shinnie less so), they have been left to look ridiculous by how they're instructed to interpret handball and use VAR. 

The actual guys trying to make the decisions are a much smaller problem than the big picture imho.

A modicum of common sense on handball and - however you do it - restricting VAR to clear errors would still leave people moaning but I suspect much less than now.

[Busta Nut]

Motherwell's issues yesterday, VAR/Refs were way down the list.

[joewarkfanclub]

8 hours ago, MurrayWell said:

The handball rule is beyond terrible now, makes nae sense and is ruining games on a weekly basis. 

On Kettlewell, I think he's shown he's a good coach and solid at man management but, I think it's fair to say, a tactical genius, he ain't.

Might have been @crazylegsjoe (apologies if it wasn't you) who said a few weeks back, Kettlewell is absolutely fine when he can't overthink it. McGinn at LWB worked at Ibrox but wasn't the choice today (FWIW I'd have had him back in the back three). Just seems like Kettlewell makes things unnecessary difficult for himself at times. Easy for fans to say I suppose, but it looks like he repeatedly ties himself in knots with trying to be too clever. 

That being said, imo folk do need to gee him a bit of a break though, was a frustrating afternoon and result but overall we do seem to have turned a bit of a corner recently.  

From looking at what SK does with his substitutions, he seems to make them using a pecking order in relation to seniority.

His initial team selection seemed odd, but at half time he brings on Gent and takes off Mugabi and moves McGinn inside. He later brings on Devine and takes off Blaney and moves the entire back 3 across one.

Its never just a like for like replacement.

Now maybe he feels he can trust SODs and McGinn more than Blaney and Mugabi, but it cant be good for consistency of performance and patterns of play if your entire back line is constantly being moved around the place.

Also taking Vale off and leaving Bair on. Ok Bair is our player and more senior than a young loanee, but Vale was having a much better game and may have assisted young Ferrie through the middle more than sticking Ferrie on the outside expecting him to assist Bair?

Keeping your senior players happy for squad harmony is important. But there are times you just need to make the correct decisions to win the game.

I didnt think SK did that yesterday.

[joewarkfanclub]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

Motherwell's issues yesterday, VAR/Refs were way down the list.

I agree with that to a point, but goals change games.

Thought we had got a grip of the game yesterday after a slow start and we have had a perfectly good goal chopped off.

We go in at half time 1-1 its a different game for both sides and we maybe manage it differently.

As for the Shinnie hand ball. Thats just theft of a point (if current rules are applied consistently).

 

Edited March 17 by joewarkfanclub

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

When the commentators were discussing Simms' first goal for Coventry yesterday they mentioned that the "badge" at the top of the arm was the "cut-off point": only below it was it deemed hand (or arm) ball. And so to Bair...

 

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

Shitey result. Shitey two weeks to wait until the next game which is against the Shities from Shiteyville.

All a bit shite, really.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I posted similar after the Celtic game, but the tinkering of personnel whilst remaining stubbornly loyal to the system does baffle me.

Yesterday, only Bair and Kelly started the game in the position they finished it.

I honestly struggle to think of a game where there are nine positional changes that wasn't a pre season friendly, or this Motherwell team.

 

[Handsome_Devil]

43 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I posted similar after the Celtic game, but the tinkering of personnel whilst remaining stubbornly loyal to the system does baffle me.

Yesterday, only Bair and Kelly started the game in the position they finished it.

I honestly struggle to think of a game where there are nine positional changes that wasn't a pre season friendly, or this Motherwell team.

 

It's been said before that Kettlewell would benefit massively from one of those 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' signs in his office and dugout.

His work improving individuals suggests he's a decent coach but his tactical genius is much more limited and we nearly always play ourselves into bother when he overthinks.

[Ron Aldo]

I've never yo-yo'd so much with a manager as I have with Kettlewell. 

He's fine setting a team up against the likes of Rangers and Celtic when the remit is clear (i.e. - don't get pumped) but against others he has a tendency to tie himself in knots with his selections and systems, usually to our detriment. 

I've cooled on the whole "Kettlewell out" shtick but, f**k me, he's frustrating sometimes. 

[2426255]

3 hours ago, ropy said:

I have long held the belief that our players should be qualified referees, every other occupation send their workforce on courses, whether it is to learn Excel or pick up some professional certificate.  This should be especially true for boys coming through the academy.  It would mean that our players understood the rules/laws which is no bad thing but in particular they would be able to use the language on the pitch in discussion with the referee that is used in referee circles.

If the referee hears a situation described as they have heard it in their training are they more likely to think twice about waving away a claim?

 

Not sure on that. I think it would end up playing out in the worst possible way. The players would respect the referee's authority even less and question their decisions more because they've been on a course and have a level of qualification behind them.

I think the root of disputes over decisions will always be self interest and never be objective fairness. That's a very difficult problem for football to solve. We have referee's because the players can't referee themselves.

[Handsome_Devil]

21 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

I've never yo-yo'd so much with a manager as I have with Kettlewell. 

He's fine setting a team up against the likes of Rangers and Celtic when the remit is clear (i.e. - don't get pumped) but against others he has a tendency to tie himself in knots with his selections and systems, usually to our detriment. 

I've cooled on the whole "Kettlewell out" shtick but, f**k me, he's frustrating sometimes. 

It's even more bizarre as keeping it obvious was a large part of our good run last season and even turning it around in late December happened, funnily enough, with an actual lwb and six in the team. And yet again, here we are ...

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

West Ham v Villa: defender in penalty box has arm at ninety degrees to his body while pointing. Ball strikes middle of arm. No penalty.

Willie Collum please note.

[ropy]

It is strange, he messed about against Celtic and we lost goals, he did the same yesterday and it blunted our attack.

[Vietnam91]

3 hours ago, Handsome_Devil said:

It's been said before that Kettlewell would benefit massively from one of those 'Keep It Simple, Stupid' signs in his office and dugout.

His work improving individuals suggests he's a decent coach but his tactical genius is much more limited and we nearly always play ourselves into bother when he overthinks.

This.

When he first came in he looked who he had in the building and we moved to a 532 which got the best out of Max, KVV, Goss, etc.

This season you can't deny he saw something in Bair nobody else did. It's the equivalent of Oli Shaw rocking sitting on 15 contributions by this time next season. While he can rightfully get a pat on the back for his stewardship over Bair's development, a number of players have regressed under him this season and he should also carry the can for that too. Fair's fair.

Kelly and Butcher being the standouts. While Kelly has had his flaps, I'm always reticent to fully have a go at keepers because a massive portion of their performances are dependant on the defence in front of them.

None of us at present know if Davor was nursing a knock and wasn't to be risked, if our new project was anywhere ready for the rigours of the game but the tinkering or a the very least the perception of it is doing his PR and credibility no favours.

But here we are again with a flat start and a goal conceded within half an hour. This is a recurring theme this season as is our in ability to turn far too few games round from conceding that first goal. Out of the 30 league games, we've won 2 from a losing position (Kilmarnock August 2, Livingston February 28).

We've scored first in 9 with one scoreless draw with St Mirren. Out of those 9 first goals games, 5 have been from the last 9 which funny enough also shows wins and an upturn in league position and optimism.

[welldaft]

58 minutes ago, ropy said:

It is strange, he messed about against Celtic and we lost goals, he did the same yesterday and it blunted our attack.

Totally agree. He talked up the fact that it was a positive he introduced Ferrie and Wells. We all want to see youth given a chance, but there is a time and a place and being 1-0 down to a streetwise and experienced Aberdeen team is imho not the time.

It certainly did not help that Spittal and Bair also had their worst displays of the last couple of months. You felt as if Bair could have played all day and not scored. Just one of those days but a reminder he is a rough diamond and needs a lot of polish before he can become ever reliable.

The next few games are so important. That loss yesterday does have us looking behind. Aberdeen playing Ross C next is a help but ideally we need to take 4 points minimum from the next 3 games. Anything more and we wont finish bottom two. Anything less and the post split fixtures will be nail biting...