Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[rowsdower]

3 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

I created a song about us winning the champions league with Ai https://suno.com/song/262dce14-fcd8-4b2d-9212-246b8befa624

For clarification, I created the song with AI about motherwell winning the champions league, its not a song about motherwell using AI to win the champions league. This is a song about us using AI to win the CL https://suno.com/song/04f19024-9feb-43ab-921c-7332ed68c3ac

[camer0n_mcd]

I miss when my biggest Motherwell related grievance was short corners.

[Vietnam91]

1 minute ago, Ill Ray said:

Vietnam gonna be a cult hero in a filler 5th episode to break up the pace with the next episode being us winning the league cup.  

I'll start learning Gaelic now then .....

 

@Erik Barmack, New phone .... who diz?

Thanks for the offer but one more mention of macro's and other floury bizniz speak language other than tangible answers could result in the loss of another sense and I can't afford any more when I'm one down already.

With respect to your offer tweaks under advisement. Is this the 7th draft?

I'll bet your shareholding will not drop below the WS's, your chairmanship, 3 seats (although you cold get away with two based on the past few days) and casting vote won't alter either and you've already indicated your £1.95m valuation is a red line. Prove me wrong.

There's so much fat in this deal you can throw us a few scraps to appear magnanimous but it will still remain patently unfair and detrimental.

[Alanos]

Hibs end of season update.

 

First Team Summary

Retiring 

David Marshall

Released

Paul Hanlon

Lewis Stevenson

Adam Le Fondre

Returns to parent club at end of loan

Will Fish

Eliezer Mayenda

Myziane Maolida

Emiliano Marcondes

Nectarios Triantis 

 

Academy Summary

Signed new contract

Owen Calder

Joseph McGrath

Released

Jamie Bulloch

Robbie Hamilton

Owen Hastie

Jay McGarva

Alfie Smith

Harry Wright

Talks ongoing 

Freddie Owens

 

[welldaft]

33 minutes ago, David1979 said:

After all, it would be rather silly to expect us to vote on accepting a proposal that sees us being asked to invest £1.35 million over six years, which would bizarrely result in a reduction of our shareholding by 25% alongside a requirement to write off 50% of our club loan, amounting to £434,000. I'm sure you recognise that this loan represents funds contributed by fans—many of whom are pensioners and others of limited means—who entrusted their money to the Society in good faith.

I said it previously but this for me is the MAJOR kicker as they say in the US. Leaving aside valuations and the Wild Sheep investment amount and time period.

We the fans currently own 71%. Regardless of how that came about I would almost be opposed to any WS shareholder dilution, but under those terms it is genuinely baffling and bizarre. Almost as if the WS money is Monopoly money when it is every bit as real as the proposed money/investment from Wild Sheep.

[AnderooMFC]

2 hours ago, rowsdower said:

some of the ideas you have for growing the club, and what aspects of the club you see as a unique investment opportunity for investors/collaborators? I believe that we do a horrible job at promoting ourselves, and this is a failing  of scottish football in general, so I'm curious as to how you'd approach that.

1 hour ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I thought he would at least try and explain how he was going to add value to the club. What AI means in his statement? What are new frontiers in social media? Is he opening a Motherwell account on Snapchat.

Like wtf does this mean

Are you sitting in a trailer park in Little Rock with a spare 50 dollars? Have you ever heard of Scotchland, kilts, or soccerball? Well now YOU, yes YOU can own your very own Motherwell FC NFT! *bagpipes start*  Motherwell Footingball Club is a great WEE place outside of Glass Cow and Edin Burrow. Their fan owned* club has been going since 1886 when they chased the haggis from the Firs Park and started kicking a ball around. Now you can own some of this clubs greatest moments in digital form! Choose from one of our seasons highlights like Liam Kelly flapping at a corner, a free kick in the opponents half being passed back to the goalkeeper, and Stuart Kettlewell's widow's peak! Call 0800-Wild-Sheep to order your MFCNFT today!
^{*The Well Society only own 46% but we're still saying it's fan ownership. Wild Sheep will accept payments over a 6yr period but if after 2 years they decide you have a stupid email address they will refund you, +10% interest.} 

[Well Fan]

12 minutes ago, AnderooMFC said:

Are you sitting in a trailer park in Little Rock with a spare 50 dollars? Have you ever heard of Scotchland, kilts, or soccerball? Well now YOU, yes YOU can own your very own Motherwell FC NFT! *bagpipes start*  Motherwell Footingball Club is a great WEE place outside of Glass Cow and Edin Burrow. Their fan owned* club has been going since 1886 when they chased the haggis from the Firs Park and started kicking a ball around. Now you can own some of this clubs greatest moments in digital form! Choose from one of our seasons highlights like Liam Kelly flapping at a corner, a free kick in the opponents half being passed back to the goalkeeper, and Stuart Kettlewell's widow's peak! Call 0800-Wild-Sheep to order your MFCNFT today!
^{*The Well Society only own 46% but we're still saying it's fan ownership. Wild Sheep will accept payments over a 6yr period but if after 2 years they decide you have a stupid email address they will refund you, +10% interest.} 

Brilliant mate

[Erik Barmack]

2 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

I'll start learning Gaelic now then .....

 

@Erik Barmack, New phone .... who diz?

Thanks for the offer but one more mention of macro's and other floury bizniz speak language other than tangible answers could result in the loss of another sense and I can't afford any more when I'm one down already.

With respect to your offer tweaks under advisement. Is this the 7th draft?

I'll bet your shareholding will not drop below the WS's, your chairmanship, 3 seats (although you cold get away with two based on the past few days) and casting vote won't alter either and you've already indicated your £1.95m valuation is a red line. Prove me wrong.

There's so much fat in this deal you can throw us a few scraps to appear magnanimous but it will still remain patently unfair and detrimental.

So ... it's a complicated process that not even keyboard warriors on this board, full of brim and snark, understand.  But sure, direct your focus at 7 drafts (there haven't been seven drafts).

On your bet ... at least, in part, you'd be wrong.

[Erik Barmack]

3 hours ago, David1979 said:

Awesome. Let me ask a few quick ones then;

You talk about "infrastructure and long-term strategic projects." Sounds great. Let's hear some details. What are these "long-term strategic projects" you speak of? What specific infrastructure projects are you interested in implementing within the club? How do your proposed projects align with our current business strategy and the goals of the current majority ownership? What are your expectations for the return on investment on these projects, and over what period? How do you measure the success of infrastructure and long-term strategic projects?

@David1979, thanks for these questions.  I'm going to try to answer as many of them as I can briefly.  My ask here is that we can expand on many of these topics, and that I'm sticking to 2-3 sentences per topic in the name of not turning this thread into a Tolstoy novel.  So here goes, in terms of long term projects, here are a few considerations.  This is by no means an exhaustive list.  And I'm pretty convinced that the best ideas will come from interactions with TWS Board and fans who are passionate about the Club.  Secondarily, my theory from Netflix is that you need to have a lot of ideas, and you need to "fail quickly" on the bad ones, and that ideas that are risky, low-cost and fast, with some upside should almost always be tried.  So when we talk about "success," I'm not going to give you great answers on each project, but each one should have enough potential to change the business by 100k pounds+.  Paramount to this strategy is that we should always have a queue of new ideas incoming that are 10-20 deep, and that mostly improves based on what's worked already.  That (partially) answers your "measure of success" question, which is that good businesses should be constantly trying and failing.  Here are some things I'd like to try -- I'm going to start with 10 as conversation points (and the focus of this list is by no means the "best ideas" for the club, as there are several ideas for football ops and already well in progress, I think, by TWS -- so I've tried to focus on ideas that may be a bit farther afield, for now):

(1) On Predictive AI ... this is a topic that can easily go down the wrong track, but there's generative AI (think Chat GPT "creating content") and predictive AI (think of Amazon deciding what ad to place in your queue).  I'm mostly interested in predictive AI, which can be used to implement better ticketing campaigns (if it knows something about our users), upsells, merch sales, determine the frequency of correspondence per person, and so on.  Your database should not be static, but always learning, and in MFC's particular case, there's 13k+ people who have had season tickets at some point, but currently don't.  Reaching 5% of them means we'd be up 20% y-o-y on season ticket sales, which passes the, "could this be worth 100k or more?" test.  Predictive AI tools can be implemented for single thousands of dollars (and we've worked with companies that are good at this).

(2) On TV ... yes, I think I a docu-series can be made.  I've been approached by a broadcaster.  That model has some revenue attached to the show, some distribution rights that could stick with the club, and it would pass the 100k test, and, more importantly, get MFC known as a brand to more people outside of Scotland.  That could have big implications beyond a simple licensing revenue stream.  

(3) On Player Media Amplification ... I believe that, between our experiences at Netflix, Youtube, and Snap, we'd be able to put players in touch with experts to help them build their own content in a way that's not expensive to the Club.  Wrexham has used this as a recruiting tool in a way that's not insignificant.  Players want to understand how they can expand their own brands, and it will be valuable for the Club to sell product tie-ins and sponsorships.  This one, I don't have a target business case against, but feel strongly that it would differentiate MFC over time with minimal investment.

(4) On TWS (ex-Scotland) ... The Caledonian Braves have a platform that's raised 1m dollars this year. They are in the 5th division.  Their stadium is in Motherwell.  What they've done has made their platform accessible and entertaining for Americans (and others).  Part of this is that they're on a platform that's easier for Americans, and part of this is that their value proposition is clearer for Americans, but I believe implementing a platform for better fan engagement (combined with #2 and #3, and investors below) could lead to bigger engagement abroad, which would strengthen, not weaken, TWS.

(5) On TWS Tools (Generally) ... a more engaged TWS will lead to better ideas, more fun, and higher engagement on activities that could drive revenue to the Club.  That means weekly video meetings, more ability to vote on things, greater access to talent within the Club, and clearer engagement around communal activities.  As an example, there's tons of evidence to suggest that a fan who is part of a vote on the look of a kit is much more likely to buy that kit.  Nike has done a ton of work on this, and I believe that the more TWS is a platform for fan engagement, the higher the revenue around that engagement will be.  (But I think this will take awhile to prove out.)

(6) On integrated sponsorships ... There's a pretty thriving market here for celebrities who a) like sports and b) want to push branded products into integrated marketing approaches, which suits sports fairly well.  Those include musicians who have new liquor lines, and things of that nature.  I think we can tap into some of these opportunities.  And again, if we're building 1-5 well, the question then becomes can we work on marketing deals with brands that are a bit more global, but still integrated into local sports?  

(7) On Using Players/Coaches/Talents to Promote Season Ticket Sales/Other Sales: This relates partially to #1 and partially to #3, but there's increasing value for celebrities (or, in this case, players) being involved in helping a club achieve certain sales goals.  The challenge is that players are stretched thin for time, so you want to optimize how and when they can be used for, say, a season ticket push, and also incentivize them financially to help.  Here technology matters to maximize the use of their time, as well as to create the proper incentive structure.

(8) On In Game Experiences ... When Tottenham moved to its new stadium, they managed to get the average person there for over 40 minutes longer, which had significant gameday revenue implications.  I don't know enough about how to make this change within Fir Park, but pre-game acoustic concerts, post-game radio/podcasts or Q+As at particular places, local food vendors -- I think there has to be some thinking that extending the time spent in or around Fir Park is a measurable and objective goal that would lead to more revenue over time.

(9) On Stadium Sponsorships ... No, I don't want to be a dumb American here, but over half of the SPFL has some sort of stadium sponsorship.  I think there may be some cost to finding the right package to present, and the right branding implementation.  But I wonder if this is an idea worth investigating if the right positioning can be achieved.

(10) On Improving the Value of TWS/Season Tickets within Motherwell: @Vietnam91 pointed this out to me a long time ago, and I agree with him that there's a big opportunity to provide discounts locally for people who are invested in season tickets and or TWS.  It's a win for the stores to increase business, and, with restaurants, if you have a family, you can justify season tickets by getting, say, 3 pounds off per meal per kid -- it adds up quickly.  This isn't a new idea, but something that I think requires some sweat and technology, and is important to the community.

Again, I've tried to focus on ideas that are slightly more in my domain here -- I don't think all of them are the biggest ideas. Brian Caldwell, I know, has at least 10 ideas as big as these worth investing time and thought into, as does TWS, as does this Board.   In a sense, culture will always beat individual ideas, and a culture where we can debate and try things wins over one in which we're endlessly stuck on a few fixed ideas.   So, before you shoot half of these ideas down, I'd say, "That's the point." We need 30-40 ideas, picking 10, and getting a new set every few months. 

@David1979, If it's okay with you, I'll split your thread into multiple answers, so that each one can have its own discussion.  My next answer (on investors) will come after my F**cking kids stop yelling at me.

[capt_oats]

A bit from McGarry's mail out yesterday that's fairly open minded but again concludes that for him (like many others) even setting aside the valuation business fan ownership is a red line and he wouldn't vote for the deal in its current form. 

Edited June 14 by capt_oats

[welldaft]

I think the response above from @Erik Barmack is encouraging, enlightening and welcome. Leaving aside the merits or otherwise of the investment I think we ALL agree that Motherwell FC could do with a fresh innovative and proactive approach to all commercial, media and other related areas.

One thing that has not been covered unless I missed it. Dealing in a professional and timely manner to us the fans / customer base. I have followed Motherwell for near on 45 since I attended my 1st game in 1975. It would not be an exaggeration to say that numerous times in the past I have had poor responses or no responses at all to legitimate enquiries, that were it any other business I would have simply moved on.

I know at least three individuals that have taken business away from Motherwell in the recent past. One who used to have a season ticket for a south stand box. The whole box. One who had a season ticket for the Millenium and another who was a Centenary member. None of them have those packages anymore. The latter (who is very recent) does not even attend home games in protest and as a result the club have lost out on over £1000 per season.

I appreciate this may appear like a bit of a rant. It is not. I am simply stating that if we are looking to raise or better yet protect revenue then I would also consider investing in a Senior customer relations individual / team whose primary focus is ensuring that fans legitimate concerns or enquiries are dealt with and resolved properly and with empathy. I should say that recently I have made enquiries about shirt sponsorship and other matters and they have been dealt with very well.

It is just a general point based on past experience and whilst improvements have been made I firmly believe this an area that any new CEO / Investor would do well to review in depth and not overlook as part of an overall strategy of improvements. 

[one m in Motherwell]

This is a very good point.  We have the distinct air of a bowling club at times, led by a bunch of folk who 'know what's best' for us.  

 

Might just be me but I think there's been a big switch back to this since the Flow/Russell era.

[Wellin]

31 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I think the response above from @Erik Barmack is encouraging, enlightening and welcome. Leaving aside the merits or otherwise of the investment I think we ALL agree that Motherwell FC could do with a fresh innovative and proactive approach to all commercial, media and other related areas.

One thing that has not been covered unless I missed it. Dealing in a professional and timely manner to us the fans / customer base. I have followed Motherwell for near on 45 since I attended my 1st game in 1975. It would not be an exaggeration to say that numerous times in the past I have had poor responses or no responses at all to legitimate enquiries, that were it any other business I would have simply moved on.

I know at least three individuals that have taken business away from Motherwell in the recent past. One who used to have a season ticket for a south stand box. The whole box. One who had a season ticket for the Millenium and another who was a Centenary member. None of them have those packages anymore. The latter (who is very recent) does not even attend home games in protest and as a result the club have lost out on over £1000 per season.

I appreciate this may appear like a bit of a rant. It is not. I am simply stating that if we are looking to raise or better yet protect revenue then I would also consider investing in a Senior customer relations individual / team whose primary focus is ensuring that fans legitimate concerns or enquiries are dealt with and resolved properly and with empathy. I should say that recently I have made enquiries about shirt sponsorship and other matters and they have been dealt with very well.

It is just a general point based on past experience and whilst improvements have been made I firmly believe this an area that any new CEO / Investor would do well to review in depth and not overlook as part of an overall strategy of improvements. 

Excellent post 

[RandomGuy.]

31 minutes ago, welldaft said:

I think the response above from @Erik Barmack is encouraging, enlightening and welcome.

He's said about 10,000 words on this forum now and I've still never seen an explanation for why the club needs carved up into the % ownership he wants it to be?

To be harsh as f**k, and unfair, but so far it looks like you're giving up fan ownership of your football club so a techbro can experiment with AI at a professional sports level. Again though, I'm an outsider so don't know Motherwells operation like you.

[Wellin]

6 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

This is a very good point.  We have the distinct air of a bowling club at times, led by a bunch of folk who 'know what's best' for us.  

 

Might just be me but I think there's been a big switch back to this since the Flow/Russell era.

Don't we. 

[Wellin]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

He's said about 10,000 words on this forum now and I've still never seen an explanation for why the club needs carved up into the % ownership he wants it to be?

To be harsh as f**k, and unfair, but so far it looks like you're giving up fan ownership of your football club so a techbro can experiment with AI at a professional sports level. Again though, I'm an outsider so don't know Motherwells operation like you.

The post above didn't make mention of giving up fan ownership. 

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, Wellin said:

The post above didn't make mention of giving up fan ownership. 

The % split of the club suggested does though?

It reeks of setting it up so there's a position of power to "create shares", so investors can come in and get their own slice of the club down the line, and your fan society sees everything diminished to the point of extinction.

But I'm a cynical arsehole.

[Wellin]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

The % split of the club suggested does though?

It reeks of setting it up so there's a position of power to "create shares", so investors can come in and get their own slice of the club down the line, and your fan society sees everything diminished to the point of extinction.

But I'm a cynical arsehole.

Im a Well Society member and have been for a long time. I personally think that Motherwell needs outside investment but other fans don't agree.

There are fans who think the current way we operate - selling on our best assets works for us. That isn't me saying that I'm going to vote yes to this but I think the club is stagnating (again other fans won't agree) and there's obviously issues with the way we are being run (the Board). Think the events of this week have just emphasised that. 

I do believe in fan ownership. I'm just not sure we have enough fans to sustain it (think that's obviously the biggest issue) and I don't think it's working as well as it might. 

 

[Swello]

3 minutes ago, Wellin said:

I personally think that Motherwell needs outside investment but other fans don't agree.

I've seen little evidence that supporters aren't open to investment - I would say the split is more around "investment at any cost" vs "investment that doesn't fundamentally change the ownership of the club".

It may be that there is no realistic way to find someone to put money in without requiring to take effective control - but that is another discussion.

[Wellin]

3 minutes ago, Swello said:

I've seen little evidence that supporters aren't open to investment - I would say the split is more around "investment at any cost" vs "investment that doesn't fundamentally change the ownership of the club".

It may be that there is no realistic way to find someone to put money in without requiring to take effective control - but that is another discussion.

I have. On other forums and elsewhere online. There are fans who think the way we operate just now works well for us. I'm not trying to suggest that's the majority view - just that there are fans who don't think we need outside investment 

I agree with the point that it's probably going to be tough to find someone who wants to inject money into the club without them wanting to take control. 

Edited June 14 by Wellin