Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Alexander gave Carroll a new deal appallingly early so there must have been something he liked at some point. But having moved Lamie and SOD out to the left late in the season the penny does seem to have dropped a little. Based on team need and what's possible, I imagine Carroll and Ojala are top of the list we're looking to get out of their contracts.

I've always assumed that the Carroll deal was one that had been in the works while Robinson was here and Alexander just said 'fine'.

Alexander got the job on 7th January, Carroll's new deal was announced 21st January - I'd be amazed if in a week and a half Alexander had decided the bold Jake was due a new deal.

Essentially it's the reverse of Robinson rocking up to St Mirren and telling their players that any new deals were off the table, which got their fans bent out of shape.

[Handsome_Devil]

7 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

I've always assumed that the Carroll deal was one that had been in the works while Robinson was here and Alexander just said 'fine'.

Alexander got the job on 7th January, Carroll's new deal was announced 21st January - I'd be amazed if in a week and a half Alexander had decided the bold Jake was due a new deal.

Essentially it's the reverse of Robinson rocking up to St Mirren and telling their players that any new deals were off the table, which got their fans bent out of shape.

Probably but ultimately he's responsible for it, fair or not...and I think it's not uncommon - and not unexpected among players - that a new manager coming in would delay such matters. Saying 'you're all shite, I'm trying to get you out' a la Butcher or Robinson is problematic, saying 'everyone starts afresh let's wait on contract extensions a couple of months till I judge the squad' pretty reasonable.

[MP_MFC]

Props to oor Graeme for a class night at the terrace live show last night, dunno if anyone else made it but can thoroughly recommend trying to catch the next one, assuming there is one.

[thisGRAEME]

7 hours ago, MP_MFC said:

Props to oor Graeme for a class night at the terrace live show last night, dunno if anyone else made it but can thoroughly recommend trying to catch the next one, assuming there is one.

Thank you mate, very kind. Remains a real chuckle and a privilege that people chose to spend their Friday night with this gang of idiots, but we all had an absolute blast.

[rowsdower]

When are we getting the episode where you talk about our shite (successful) season?

[thisGRAEME]

20 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

When are we getting the episode where you talk about our shite (successful) season?

Recorded the patreon on Thursday! As fowler was at a wedding today I'd assume some time in October.

[well fan for life]

39 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Recorded the patreon on Thursday! As fowler was at a wedding today I'd assume some time in October.

Didn't realise Fowler was a professional wedding crasher these days. 
 

Looked like a cracker. Sad I missed out but this household is up to it's collective eyeballs in the covid.

[Swello]

The outgoings aren't a huge surprise obviously - maybe Donnelly given that Alexander almost always used him when he was fit, but no-one on the list was a first 11 type player in my view.

I'm currently trying to work out if having the club with no stalwart (a word only used in football), long serving players (or coaches) is a good or a bad thing. It's all intangible stuff - but I've always assumed that having folk that don't need to use Satnav to find Fir Park was a good thing for helping new players settle in and maybe having players that have some affection for the club helps a bit when we're in the shit. 

On the other hand, maybe having players that don't know the rule that we must get pumped by Rangers and Celtic at Fir Park or the rule that throw-ins must only be taken once the opposition are organised (and must be thrown straight to them in any case) might be a positive...

Edited May 22, 2022 by Swello

[Handsome_Devil]

42 minutes ago, Swello said:

The outgoings aren't a huge surprise obviously - maybe Donnelly given that Alexander almost always used him when he was fit, but no-one on the list was a first 11 type player in my view.

I'm currently trying to work out if having the club with no stalwart (a word only used in football), long serving players (or coaches) is a good or a bad thing. It's all intangible stuff - but I've always assumed that having folk that don't need to use Satnav to find Fir Park was a good thing for helping new players settle in and maybe having players that have some affection for the club helps a bit when we're in the shit. 

On the other hand, maybe having players that don't know the rule that we must get pumped by Rangers and Celtic at Fir Park or the rule that throw-ins must only be taken once the opposition are organised (and must be thrown straight to them in any case) might be a positive...

It's probably a bit of both and you periodically want to swing a little more one way than the other.

Having everyone passing through on one/two-year deals is obviously not a good thing. However, becoming stale because you operate a jobs for the boys culture is equally a (potential) problem.

Burrows and McMahon are obviously fans rather than just folk there doing a job, the academy is overflowing with 'Motherwell men' and even in the first team we've got a guy from Wishaw as captain, Maguire who has been there for years already and Cornelius as a genuine fan on the pitch.

I think we're at the stage where a wee touch of a new broom could well be a positive thing. Obviously depending on the right man/men making the right appointments so there can't be anything taken for granted...but I don't think we're in any danger of losing our identity right now and I'm not looking at the summer changes with a great deal of fear by any means.

[capt_oats]

16 minutes ago, Swello said:

I'm currently trying to work out if having the club with no stalwart (a word only used in football), long serving players (or coaches) is a good or a bad thing. It's all intangible stuff - but I've always assumed that having folk that don't need to use Satnav to find Fir Park was a good thing for helping new players settle in and maybe having players that have some affection for the club helps a bit when we're in the shit. 

On the other hand, maybe having players that don't know the rule that we must get pumped by Rangers and Celtic at Fir Park or the rule that throw-ins must only be taken once the opposition are organised (and must be thrown straight to them in any case) might be a positive...

Aye, arguably the play-off under Baraclough was as good an example as you can get of someone who didn't seemed to be "conditioned".

What's interesting about the drift of staff that it was a culture that we were actively trying to build. I seem to remember it being something that Robinson and Burrows were talking up as a positive.

Fast forward a few years and there's been a fairly natural evolution. McFadden left in 2017 and tbh he said himself at his press conference that coaching hadn't been in his thoughts when he was offered the job, Craigan stepped down from the u20s in 2018, McManus left for Celtic in 2019, Ross hardly fits into that bracket but he was a former player (albeit briefly) he's away, Boles had been at the club since 2015 but left for Celtic in January just past.

Now that's Lasley and Hinchliffe away.

On the playing side it probably leaves Barry Maguire as our longest serving player.

The habit we had of bringing back former players was kind of a double edged thing but in the specific case of McDonald and Pearson it kept us in the division.

Players move on all the time and tbh it still feels like we've struggled to replace that intangible element we had most recently with Hartley and Tait (but then we came back from behind at Ibrox twice this season).

I mean, when it comes down to it I'd rather have good players/coaches at the club than figureheads or totems.

If they can be both then great but it really depends on who's out there.

[welldaft]

Talking of former players. Reece McAlear is a free agent and has shown some promise this season. The two goals he scored on Friday for ICT were impressive. 

I quite like the idea of getting a fee for him and him coming back for nowt. Other than ICT I am sure there may be other suitors.

If Spittal joins does that mean we are fully stocked in Midfield or is there space for one or two others ?

[Kapowzer]

In the same vein, Louis celebrated his 30th last week, he’s only a few years away from returning for his swan song when we can afford him again.

[well fan for life]

What's Tam Scobbie up to?

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

If Spittal joins does that mean we are fully stocked in Midfield or is there space for one or two others ?

Spittal is more a forward than a midfielder though. I'd have thought if he's signing it's as a replacement for Amaluzor/Roberts/upgrade on Efford.

Still leaves us looking for replacements for O'Hara and Donnelly IMO.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

To be honest, there’s not really been a point this season where I’ve thought we need Donnelly and O’Hara. If we could replace them with one higher quality player - easier said than done - I would prefer that.

I think Alexander is far more likely to get the midfield right picking 3 from 5, rather than 3 from 7 or 8 as it was at points last season.

Edited May 22, 2022 by crazylegsjoe_mfc

[capt_oats]

As it stands, with the squad as it is (not including Lamie) this is how it looks as a 433.

It really depends on whether you view Mahon as a "first team" player but before you get into whether there's room to upgrade etc. there are 3 obvious gaps IMO (I've shifted McGinley to fill the space left by Lamie).

[Kapowzer]

John Ruddy on at half time at Anfield, could he be a hero or villain?

Not often you see a sub keeper used.

[Gianfranco]

The biggest thing for me is the guy we sign to compete with KVV for the starting spot through the middle.

I’d probably take Spittal and McAlear. Then it’s just the defence to sort.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

I noticed on the Dundee thread they are saying the future of Zak Rudden’s pre contract is similar to that of Lamie’s.

I hope we’d see that as a bullet dodged and not go back in for him.

[Handsome_Devil]

12 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I noticed on the Dundee thread they are saying the future of Zak Rudden’s pre contract is similar to that of Lamie’s.

I hope we’d see that as a bullet dodged and not go back in for him.

Can't argue with that but on the basis we need a proper back-up number nine, not someone who can 'do a job across the front three', the old issue comes up of just how good a player will be willing to come to Motherwell to sit on the bench as cover for KVV. And how much are we willing to pay someone we intend to sit on the bench. Assuming we stick with 4-3-3 and/or don't go all out looking for a new first choice of course.

Even if we don't go back for Rudden, it will almost certainly be someone like that we get...young, good numbers at lower level, bit raw etc. And tbh given how GA did with Cole and Watt, it might work out better than we would previously expect.

I think Dundee will look at Lamie and think, given his potential wages, they're well rid. He'll get a better offer, at FP or elsewhere, and it's a win on both sides to tear up that PCA. I can imagine with Rudden though they'll see a guy who'll score enough in the Championship they'd like to keep him so long as they can do a deal to lower his wages to that level for a season...and while it's arguably harsh to judge him on a dozen games in that current car crash at Dens, I'm not so certain he'll get the offers from elsewhere that means he won't be agreeable to it.