Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, MurrayWell said:

Said a few weeks ago I thought we were only a couple of players away from being a pretty decent side, and while I still think there is work to do, last week's gutsy and patient performance against Killie and yesterday's display show we look like we're moving in the right direction. 

This week with the window closing will be intriguing. We surely have enough bodies that we don't need more permanent cover, will we fancy pushing the boat out on 'quality'? Or do we find a loan or two till January to keep bigger splashes for January?

I think Wilson is well and truly off the loan list (though I'm not convinced he was ever on it) while Ferrie and Wells will surely be wished all the best for some game time. 

[welldaft]

I see Derek is typing. So hopefully he can shed some light on what is happening behind the Well Bois protest.

All a bit tedious seeing the back and forward posts regarding this when we have just put in a great performance which resulted in a brilliant win against last years 3rd force.

I do probably fall into the older category = 50+. But I have no issues with the Well Bois. I sit in the John Hunter nearer the Cooper Stand, so again I am probably somewhat removed.  I also rarely go to many away games outside of cup competitions so miss any shenanigans there.

As long as it is done lawfully I 100% believe there is a place for more traditional support for the team along with the exuberance and noise the young Bois bring. Also think it helps get some younger fans to be part of something and not support the Old Firm so I am all for that. 

[DerekWatson]

Firstly, before I get on to the whole Block E scenario as promised, I need to join the SOD hype. Buzzing for him yesterday and he looked fair delighted with himself too. Long may it continue. Steve Clarke in the stands too… get him back in that national team!

Others have touched on it, not all in Block E are angels and at times they may push the boundaries and do things that others don’t enjoy - the most obvious being the use of pyrotechnics, but from the outset it’s probably worth highlighting that none of the bans they are protesting about are related to pyrotechnics.

@thisGRAEME mentioned further up this thread that 3 fans were in court last week, had their case binned due to having zero evidence against them, and were subsequently told they were still banned by the club because Police records still show the case is ongoing. 

Where the frustration lies for those in Block E is that the club, like all clubs in Scotland I imagine, have a data sharing agreement with Police Scotland where that when the Police contact the club to say someone has been charged with a football related offence then the club need to issue a ban to said supporter. On the face of it that sounds reasonable you’d think, but again where the frustration lies is, like those 3 in court last week with no evidence against them, it means that if the Police arrest or charge the wrong people then they are banned for months at a time, have many sleepless nights, legal fees, angry family members or partners and feel they have been hung out to dry by a club they more than contribute to,. all for it just to be kicked out and they’ve missed a full season of football that they’ve paid for. No apology, just get on with it, that’s life… give us your money again next week please.

In recent weeks the club have issued 7 of these stadium bans to people who deny any wrongdoing, many of them haven’t even received a letter from the Police or the Procurator Fiscal to say they have been charged but the Police have said to the club they need to be banned. If the club don’t comply with this they may face a sanction from the SPFL.

There are others who are awaiting court dates who the Police have not contacted the club to ban, so there is no consistent approach, again a big frustration for those involved. The club find themselves in a difficult position here, if they don’t ban them they could face a sanction but are they could be banning fans who have done absolutely nothing wrong because Police Scotland have said they need to. 
 

In my personal opinion, I don’t believe that the Police or the SPFL should be forcing the club to ban fans unless they have been convicted or unless the club have hard evidence that an individual has committed a crime. There is 1 individual I know personally who has recently received a letter from the club but has not received anything to say he’s been charged. He’s not committed any crimes and knows he has nothing to worry about, but is absolutely gutted that he can’t go to FirPark. Knowing how these harassment tactics have been carried out over a number of years towards football fans, I strongly believe that this individual has been singled out because he is a visual and prominent member of that section and they want to collectively damage said group. 
 

It’s probably worth adding that this is more the tip of the iceberg for those involved rather than a knee-jerk reaction. It comes after they’ve had many frustrations with the club recently, one notable frustration is the 14 year old rule. It’s had a fairly negative impact on that section with the youngsters often wanting to frequent there and add to the match-day experience. The guys in Block E who are now a lot older than that remember when that was them and they know this is the future generations who if we don’t welcome with open arms could be lost to the Old Firm or elsewhere. 
 

It’s probably also worth noting that the Bois and some of Block E spent most of this week painting a tifo for yesterdays game that went on hold, that members of Block E recently painted the beer garden for the club, that they’ve put murals all around the Cooper concourse celebrating previous teams and success free of charge and that they consistently organise charity events, food and toy drives and much more to try and benefit their local community. These guys literally dedicate their full weeks to MFC and feel they are getting little support in return. 
 

Myself and others involved with the Society have been speaking to Brian Caldwell over the past few days to try and help both sides come to a resolution, I’m not really sure if that’s going to happen any time soon, but we’ll keep trying. It’s in the best interests of everyone to find a workable way forward.

 

edit - something I should have added is that the letters received from the club only ban individuals from Fir Park. They are able to travel to away games. Make it make sense….

Edited August 26 by DerekWatson

[Busta Nut]

34 minutes ago, JohnMFC said:

No sure if anyone has already mentioned it but that stepover/turn that SODs did just outside their box was a thing of beauty. 

It was magnificent. 

[Swello]

15 minutes ago, DerekWatson said:

In recent weeks the club have issued 7 of these stadium bans to people who deny any wrongdoing, many of them haven’t even received a letter from the Police or the Procurator Fiscal to say they have been charged but the Police have said to the club they need to be banned. If the club don’t comply with this they may face a sanction from the SPFL.

Again, there are others who are awaiting court dates who the Police have not contacted the club to ban, so there is no consistent approach, again a big frustration for those involved. The club find themselves in a difficult position here, if they don’t ban them they could face a sanction but are they could be banning fans who have done absolutely nothing wrong because Police Scotland have said they need to. 

Firstly - I understand that there are different thresholds for a company banning someone from their premises ("the management reserve the right to refuse admission" and all that) and actual criminal charges - so it's perfectly feasible that someone could be banned from Fir Park without any actual criminal wrongdoing (and with zero Police involvement).

However - that isn't what's happening here and if the above is taken at face value then it's sounds like overreach from the Police (not for the first time in Scottish Football). If the police can in effect arbitrarily ban individual supporters from individual grounds (as opposed to the formal Banning Order process), that is wide open to abuse & a lack of oversight/scrutiny. For example - what would stop a (entirely hypothetical) club employee having a wee chat with friendly match commander/former colleague and agree that a few "ringleaders" could be banned for the rest of the season for something minor that would never get to court? If there is no explicit criminal/legal process attached in every case - then there is presumably no formal comeback for those that are banned and no evidence standard that must be met.

[Neil86]

Enough about Sod's and Block E, I notice we are bottom of the crime count table according to the Pie and Bovril Twitter account with only a singular booking.

 

[Antiochas III]

1 minute ago, Neil86 said:

Enough about Sod's and Block E, I notice we are bottom of the crime count table according to the Pie and Bovril Twitter account with only a singular booking.

 

Also committed the least fouls.  

[Desp]

The Chasni pies though? 

[Swello]

2 minutes ago, Desp said:

The Chasni pies though? 

Had one for the first time yesterday

 

[Busta Nut]

4 minutes ago, Desp said:

The Chasni pies though? 

Oh f**k yes. They are amazing.

[Ill Ray]

Kettlewell currently staring into a mirror looking at a twisted version of himself, telling him to sign 5 more strikers. 
 

[joewarkfanclub]

44 minutes ago, DerekWatson said:

Firstly, before I get on to the whole Block E scenario as promised, I need to join the SOD hype. Buzzing for him yesterday and he looked fair delighted with himself too. Long may it continue. Steve Clarke in the stands too… get him back in that national team!

Others have touched on it, not all in Block E are angels and at times they may push the boundaries and do things that others don’t enjoy - the most obvious being the use of pyrotechnics, but from the outset it’s probably worth highlighting that none of the bans they are protesting about are related to pyrotechnics.

@thisGRAEME mentioned further up this thread that 3 fans were in court last week, had their case binned due to having zero evidence against them, and were subsequently told they were still banned by the club because Police records still show the case is ongoing. 

Where the frustration lies for those in Block E is that the club, like all clubs in Scotland I imagine, have a data sharing agreement with Police Scotland where that when the Police contact the club to say someone has been charged with a football related offence then the club need to issue a ban to said supporter. On the face of it that sounds reasonable you’d think, but again where the frustration lies is, like those 3 in court last week with no evidence against them, it means that if the Police arrest or charge the wrong people then they are banned for months at a time, have many sleepless nights, legal fees, angry family members or partners and feel they have been hung out to dry by a club they more than contribute to,. all for it just to be kicked out and they’ve missed a full season of football that they’ve paid for. No apology, just get on with it, that’s life… give us your money again next week please.

In recent weeks the club have issued 7 of these stadium bans to people who deny any wrongdoing, many of them haven’t even received a letter from the Police or the Procurator Fiscal to say they have been charged but the Police have said to the club they need to be banned. If the club don’t comply with this they may face a sanction from the SPFL.

There are others who are awaiting court dates who the Police have not contacted the club to ban, so there is no consistent approach, again a big frustration for those involved. The club find themselves in a difficult position here, if they don’t ban them they could face a sanction but are they could be banning fans who have done absolutely nothing wrong because Police Scotland have said they need to. 
 

In my personal opinion, I don’t believe that the Police or the SPFL should be forcing the club to ban fans unless they have been convicted or unless the club have hard evidence that an individual has committed a crime. There is 1 individual I know personally who has recently received a letter from the club but has not received anything to say he’s been charged. He’s not committed any crimes and knows he has nothing to worry about, but is absolutely gutted that he can’t go to FirPark. Knowing how these harassment tactics have been carried out over a number of years towards football fans, I strongly believe that this individual has been singled out because he is a visual and prominent member of that section and they want to collectively damage said group. 
 

It’s probably worth adding that this is more the tip of the iceberg for those involved rather than a knee-jerk reaction. It comes after they’ve had many frustrations with the club recently, one notable frustration is the 14 year old rule. It’s had a fairly negative impact on that section with the youngsters often wanting to frequent there and add to the match-day experience. The guys in Block E who are now a lot older than that remember when that was them and they know this is the future generations who if we don’t welcome with open arms could be lost to the Old Firm or elsewhere. 
 

It’s probably also worth noting that the Bois and some of Block E spent most of this week painting a tifo for yesterdays game that went on hold, that members of Block E recently painted the beer garden for the club, that they’ve put murals all around the Cooper concourse celebrating previous teams and success free of charge and that they consistently organise charity events, food and toy drives and much more to try and benefit their local community. These guys literally dedicate their full weeks to MFC and feel they are getting little support in return. 
 

Myself and others involved with the Society have been speaking to Brian Caldwell over the past few days to try and help both sides come to a resolution, I’m not really sure if that’s going to happen any time soon, but we’ll keep trying. It’s in the best interests of everyone to find a workable way forward.

 

edit - something I should have added is that the letters received from the club only ban individuals from Fir Park. They are able to travel to away games. Make it make sense….

Surely this isnt a policy implemented by the club on its own though?

Is it not something the club is subject to through its membership of the SPFL and any agreements the ruling body makes with the police / Scottish Government?

That being the case, are the lads making the club the focus of the protest instead of the ruling body / police / Scottish Government?

[Al B]

My Mrs absolutely f**king hates football (loves GAA though....apparently football doesn't have enough of "c***s just smashing each other" - Irish ladies have such a lovely way with words), has never been to Fir Park and never will, and yet I have to buy an extra chasni pie to take home for her.

Not going to lie though, there's been more than one occasion where it hasn't made it home.

Edited August 26 by Al B

[Desp]

I'm not sure if you're locally based @Al B but there's a couple of Motherwell based butchers that sell them during the week. The one down on The Loaning and also the one across from the Railway Tavern (Coopers?).

Might save you a couple of quid (or you'll get two from the butchers for the same price!)

[Al B]

4 minutes ago, Desp said:

I'm not sure if you're locally based @Al B but there's a couple of Motherwell based butchers that sell them during the week. The one down on The Loaning and also the one across from the Railway Tavern (Coopers?).

Might save you a couple of quid (or you'll get two from the butchers for the same price!)

Nah sadly not, but that's useful info to know! Special things deserve special arrangements.

[Lobby Dossar]

27 minutes ago, Swello said:

Firstly - I understand that there are different thresholds for a company banning someone from their premises ("the management reserve the right to refuse admission" and all that) and actual criminal charges - so it's perfectly feasible that someone could be banned from Fir Park without any actual criminal wrongdoing (and with zero Police involvement).

However - that isn't what's happening here and if the above is taken at face value then it's sounds like overreach from the Police (not for the first time in Scottish Football). If the police can in effect arbitrarily ban individual supporters from individual grounds (as opposed to the formal Banning Order process), that is wide open to abuse & a lack of oversight/scrutiny. For example - what would stop a (entirely hypothetical) club employee having a wee chat with friendly match commander/former colleague and agree that a few "ringleaders" could be banned for the rest of the season for something minor that would never get to court? If there is no explicit criminal/legal process attached in every case - then there is presumably no formal comeback for those that are banned and no evidence standard that must be met.

The problem is Bob Park … … … He thinks he is still employed by Police Scotland not Motherwell FC 

[StAndrew7]

On the age limit, as much as it's frustrating and clear to me that "in my day" I was going on my own at that age, it very much feels like the Club getting in front of legislation that's about to be introduced.

I accept it's frustrating but the regulations that are in place for safeguarding children at public events are there for a reason. Having had to deal with them personally for the best part of 20 years, I can absolutely see why it's been put in place.

I appreciate and completely understand that folks might find it oppressive, but from a safeguarding and wellbeing perspective for children (let's not forget that's what they are legally at that age) it does make sense.

As for the Bois/Block E situation, I do sympathise. Particularly when it's in situations where there's little to no evidence of wrongdoing and the Police have just handed down charges. The fact the Club basically had to either ban them or face additional sanctions if they then don't ban them, is ridiculous.

On the whole atmosphere thing, I tend to agree with @Desp and others on this. I think they do a LOT of good in and around the ground and club, not just on match days. But thwacking a drum all game isn't atmosphere, imho, it's noise.

Edited August 26 by StAndrew7

[redstarcvedza]

27 minutes ago, Al B said:

Nah sadly not, but that's useful info to know! Special things deserve special arrangements.

The pies are supplied from Gillespies Family butchers in Forth. They're also available from the Keystore in Dimsdale in Wishaw and in a few stores in the Biggar area. Quite a few Well fans have been to the shop in Forth to stock up. As well as making money for the club the economic cycle of the pie helps to support businesses in the local community. The ingredients are sourced from businesses in Wishaw and Bellshill, constructed and baked in Forth with a Motherwell based business running the catering. The price at the ground is obviously more expensive but the purchase is providing the club with much needed extra cash.

Also I guess pies taste all the better accompanied by a superb performance on the pitch !

 

[one m in Motherwell]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

It was magnificent. 

I'm still not sure it was entirely meant?  Still pure amazing though.

[RostokMcSpoons]

Is it my imagination or did SODs look a little leaner / skinnier yesterday?  Has he perhaps changed his fitness regime away from muscle mass for strength, to get lighter on his feet?  

He just seemed a bit more fleet of foot than previously.  But maybe that's just an effect of the overall great performance