Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

On 9/30/2018 at 10:55, Ron Aldo said:

This might seem a bit simplistic but how did Killie get Greg Stewart and we ended up with Sammon?

Their budget isn't that much bigger than ours surely? Stewart would have offered us something different whereas Sammon is Curtis Main's da as far as I can tell.

According to 'Arry Redknapp we were in for Stewart last season but couldn't afford him.

Quote

Redknapp told the Scottish Sun:

“Clubs have asked for Greg — Aberdeen, Motherwell and Dundee.

“It’s only a loan for the season that I’ve been asked about.

“But Greg’s wages at Birmingham are too high for the Scottish clubs, even the percentage that we’d be looking for.

“So for now he’s not going anywhere, although I’m sure there are clubs in England who would take Greg for a year on his current wages.”

Clearly his situation changed as he ended up at Aberdeen anyway and Birmingham have since pretty much told him to do one.

I've a lot of time for Robinson but the general point you're making seems to ring true. Broadly speaking he seems a pretty conservative manager. The story during the window there that linked us with Ross Callachan when we have a million central midfielders but have been crying out for a bit of flair is a pretty accurate representation.

Ciftci and Tanner are probably exceptions to the rule (along with Bigi to a degree) but if there's the choice between a flair player and a solid 7/10 guy then rightly or wrongly Robinson gives the impression that he'd prioritise the 'guid, honest laddie' every time.

As far as why we ended up with Sammon, I'd guess that he specifically wanted someone with the erm, qualities he brings. Ultimately if he was looking for someone in the Main mould then it's unlikely he'd be looking at a player like Stewart.

Looking at the squad just now then while Tanner's knee is hanging off we're pretty lacking in spark and flair which is kind of underwhelming. You look through most of our sides and there's always been one or two players that could offer a bit of creativity or quality in the final third.

Edited October 2, 2018 by capt_oats

[Gianfranco]

Anyone else find the coffee and chat thing on twitter cringe AF?

 

[Gianfranco]

Also apparently Alex Gorrin is a longer term injury. I must have missed that one.

[Ron Aldo]

14 hours ago, Gianfranco said:

Also apparently Alex Gorrin is a longer term injury. I must have missed that one.

Who?

[MJC]

Re: our summer transfer business, there's no doubt it was dreadful and we're paying the price for that. That said, I'm still behind Stephen Robinson and I hope he turns things around. Obviously our cup exploits last season put a lot of credit in the bank for him, as did his transfer dealings in summer 2017, but I think the rapport he has with the club and the support is what is keeping a lot of the support off his back just now. He gives the impression that he genuinely loves being at the club and has done more than many a Motherwell manager in terms of building bridges with the support.

He can't though get by on this forever if results and performances don't pick up soon and indeed failure to win today, at home to Livingston, would see bigger questions being asked of him.

[Ya Bezzer!]

7 hours ago, MJC said:

He can't though get by on this forever if results and performances don't pick up soon and indeed failure to win today, at home to Livingston, would see bigger questions being asked of him.

Well not only did we fail to win, we stole a point and were hemmed in 20 yards from the goal line for long sections of the match. 

The standard of play is atrocious.  Poor players have been brought in and players who were previously good to decent are going backwards.

I've said it over and over, Robinson brings with him non league standards.  That's what we are now.  The Droylesden of the North.  A claret and amber Havant & Waterlooville. We don't deserve to be in a national top league if this is our vision of football. 

And I really don't get the Robinson 'nice guy' factor when he's not even trying to entertain or advance the club and is dead set on scrapping by and his own survival as manager with turgid tactics and percentage football.  The happy with 10th attitude is horseshit.  Engage me through football, not social media.  

We might just have enough to edge out the rest of the dross in the league, although it remains to be seen what happens at St. Mirren in a few weeks when we go there, but right now Motherwell Football Club is a castle built on a swamp. The parapet might not disappear into the marsh this season but it's sinking, sinking, sinking.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Ya Bezzer!

[Gianfranco]

I don’t think he’ll last much longer if the standard of football doesn’t improve. The only good league performances I’ve seen were Dundee and Livi away.

[MJC]

4 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

Well not only did we fail to win, we stole a point and were hemmed in 20 yards from the goal line for long sections of the match. 

The standard of play is atrocious.  Poor players have been brought in and players who were previously good to decent are going backwards.

I've said it over and over, Robinson brings with him non league standards.  That's what we are now.  The Droylesden of the North.  A claret and amber Havant & Waterlooville. We don't deserve to be in a national top league if this is our vision of football. 

And I really don't get the Robinson 'nice guy' factor when he's not even trying to entertain or advance the club and is dead set on scrapping by and his own survival as manager with turgid tactics and percentage football.  The happy with 10th attitude is horseshit.  Engage me through football, not social media.  

We might just have enough to edge out the rest of the dross in the league, although it remains to be seen what happens at St. Mirren in a few weeks when we go there, but right now Motherwell Football Club is a castle built on a swamp. The parapet might disappear into the marsh this season but it's sinking, sinking, sinking.

It's difficult to argue with any of that to be honest.

[Casagolda]

I saw someone say when the team was announced that it looked uninspiring and that’s there’s not one player in that Motherwell team you’d pay to watch. To be honest, it’s hard to argue.

Even in the Baraclough days we had Johnson, Ainsworth, Moult, McDonald, Straker etc. I said it I think after the Hamilton game but I’ll say it again after yesterday, the lack of quality in this team is staggering. You always hear folk refer to us as hammer throwers and it’s really hard to argue based on yesterday’s display. Even if you got one of those free tickets floating about you’d have left feeling short changed with the amount of ‘football’ you actually got to see.

I can’t remember who but somebody said we look like a poorly coached team in possession and I think that’s absolutely spot on. When we lose the ball(which is a lot) we drop back into a shape and you can see there’s a plan there- even if it hasn’t been as successful this season as it was last.

When we have the ball we just blooter it forward, squeeze up and hope for mistakes or set pieces. It’s utterly tragic to watch but entirely expected when you listened to the nonsense Robinson came out with post Killie. The whole thing now, just looking like one massive middle finger to Bigi and those who want to see us try and play a bit of football.

[capt_oats]

46 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

I saw someone say when the team was announced that it looked uninspiring and that’s there’s not one player in that Motherwell team you’d pay to watch. To be honest, it’s hard to argue.

Even in the Baraclough days we had Johnson, Ainsworth, Moult, McDonald, Straker etc. I said it I think after the Hamilton game but I’ll say it again after yesterday, the lack of quality in this team is staggering. You always hear folk refer to us as hammer throwers and it’s really hard to argue based on yesterday’s display. Even if you got one of those free tickets floating about you’d have left feeling short changed with the amount of ‘football’ you actually got to see.

I can’t remember who but somebody said we look like a poorly coached team in possession and I think that’s absolutely spot on. When we lose the ball(which is a lot) we drop back into a shape and you can see there’s a plan there- even if it hasn’t been as successful this season as it was last.

When we have the ball we just blooter it forward, squeeze up and hope for mistakes or set pieces. It’s utterly tragic to watch but entirely expected when you listened to the nonsense Robinson came out with post Killie. The whole thing now, just looking like one massive middle finger to Bigi and those who want to see us try and play a bit of football.

Can't argue with that.

I always felt that this would be a "difficult second album" type season for Robinson. Over his caretaker games and last season we saw what he can do and you've nailed it when you're highlighting the shape when we don't have the ball. The test is whether he can adapt and develop how we do things with the ball. The Rangers game felt like a step in the right direction in that respect but we shipped 3 goals and that's the rub.

The fact that he signed guys like Bigi, Tanner et al at the very least shows Robinson's aware of their value but it's a question of whether he actually knows what to do with them. He struggled to integrate Bigi last season and Tanner was a bit part player for ages as well.

Strongly agree with your point about the quality we had vs this team. I mentioned the other day but in terms of optics Robinson gives the impression that if given the choice between a solid 7/10 player and someone with a bit of flair and personality then he'll go with the "guid, honest laddie" every time.

The thing about yesterday is that it was clear from his comments after the Killie game and also post-match yesterday that off the back of 4 straight defeats yesterday was a case of "don't lose" and the concept of performance was out the window. Ultimately a point in the context of a losing run like we were on validates his approach and reverting to an XI of players that he clearly "trusts" to an extent but ultimately even acknowledging getting a result of sorts eleven guys just launching the ball the way they're facing isn't a sustainable game plan.

Edited October 7, 2018 by capt_oats

[MJC]

Yesterday's tactics of punt the way you're facing and run like headless chickens was like watching a five a side match full of overweight guys in their 50s. It was utterly chronic to watch and embarrassing for a top flight side to be playing like that. 

Robinson, or indeed whoever the manager is when January comes around MUST recruit a wide player to give us at least the chance of changing the way we play as if we continue to play the way we have over the last month then we will be in serious relegation trouble and our stands will be more or less empty as the pay at the gate punters simply will not part with the cash to watch that dross.

[Busta Nut]

Herald and Times sportswriter Graeme McGarry joins Sparra, Busta and Jay to assess the 1-1 draw with Livingston, preview the Irn Bru Cup fixture with Sligo Rovers, discuss more twists in the scheduling of the Betfred League Cup semi finals and much more.

https://www.mfc1886.com/mfc-podcast-2018-19-episode-13/

[Casagolda]

17 hours ago, capt_oats said:

Strongly agree with your point about the quality we had vs this team. I mentioned the other day but in terms of optics Robinson gives the impression that if given the choice between a solid 7/10 player and someone with a bit of flair and personality then he'll go with the "guid, honest laddie" every time.

The thing about yesterday is that it was clear from his comments after the Killie game and also post-match yesterday that off the back of 4 straight defeats yesterday was a case of "don't lose" and the concept of performance was out the window. Ultimately a point in the context of a losing run like we were on validates his approach and reverting to an XI of players that he clearly "trusts" to an extent but ultimately even acknowledging getting a result of sorts eleven guys just launching the ball the way they're facing isn't a sustainable game plan.

It was reminiscent of our first league game back from the winter break at the start of January against Ross County, after our horrendous run in December that was a similar level of shitfest with an any means necessary approach to grinding out a result. Only Livingston are a far better side than Ross County were unfortunately.

It’s a worry that we’re now 18 months and 3 transfer windows into Robinson’s tenure and his most trusted 11 still has Tait/Cadden playing out of position at wing back and despite having about a dozen central midfielders, we still can’t find a decent balanced, functioning midfield. 

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, Casagolda said:

It’s a worry that we’re now 18 months and 3 transfer windows into Robinson’s tenure and his most trusted 11 still has Tait/Cadden playing out of position at wing back and despite having about a dozen central midfielders, we still can’t find a decent balanced, functioning midfield. 

Agreed.

I could be wrong but I've a feeling that overlooking all the 12-18 chat this imbalance is exactly what Robinson was trying to address in the summer with his recruitment. It's not a massive leap to imagine that ATS was supposed to be dropped in at LWB with Tait moving to RWB and Cadden would shift inside one and presumably take the more advanced midfield role we've had Campbell playing recently. In fairness having Cadden playing centrally is something a number of us on here were actively advocating through the close season.

Even allowing for Kipré's departure I'd say 99% of the below has players playing in approximately their best positions:

Carson
Aldred Hartley Dunne
Tait Campbell Rose ATS
Cadden
Bowman Main

Unfortunately ATS has done absolutely nothing to win Robinson's "trust" (he started against Stranraer, was hooked after 45' against Hibs and most recently had Burke running off his shoulder for Killie's equaliser last week) which leaves Tait as our best option at LWB. It's become clear that Cadden doesn't have the composure or the erm, tekkers to play as the advanced/attacking midfielder so with Bigi's brief run of form (before everything was his fault again) along with the fact that Robinson clearly wants both Campbell and Cadden in the starting line up it means Cadden's back to being shoehorned in at RWB.

Ultimately though Robinson has the tools at his disposal it's up to him to get the best out them. That line up I've just posted may not have the spark of Ainsworth, Johnson, McDonald, Moult et al, it doesn't even have a Ciftci FFS but it's pretty balanced and functional. Robinson was able to get his side playing with a specific style and identity with a degree of success last season and IMO you can probably allow a "by any means necessary" approach for one or two games after a run of 4 losses on the bounce but when it comes down to it there has to be more than that.

Edited October 8, 2018 by capt_oats

[Desp]

St Johnstone (h)

St Mirren (a)

Dundee (h)

Rangers (a)

Aberdeen (h)

 

That's our next five fixtures, taking us up to December.  How many points will be acceptable to avoid the pressure really turning up on Robinson?  We'll be doing well to get 7 points from that lot, IMO.  I think if we were lose to either St Mirren or Dundee, the fans would really start to turn on the manager.

[well fan for life]

What’s the odds of us parachuting in a season-saving Turkish maverick in January?

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, Desp said:

St Johnstone (h)

St Mirren (a)

Dundee (h)

Rangers (a)

Aberdeen (h)

That's our next five fixtures, taking us up to December.  How many points will be acceptable to avoid the pressure really turning up on Robinson?  We'll be doing well to get 7 points from that lot, IMO.  I think if we were lose to either St Mirren or Dundee, the fans would really start to turn on the manager.

Aye. Draw vs St Johnstone, wins against St Mirren and Dundee. That would take us on to 12 points for the first 11 games so 1.09 PPG. That sort of average is enough to keep you safe over the course of a season.

There are certain other factors as well I'd guess. For example, how far we're off 7th/8th and also who else is available to step in as a replacement. Reading between the lines I'd say that the medium term plan will have been for Lasley to take over in the event of Robinson moving on but with the issues we have at the moment I can't help but feel that a different voice/perspective would be needed.

As Casagolda was saying in his posts we do the things without the ball pretty well, what we struggle with is what we're doing on the ball. The thing is, that's been a consistent theme through Robinson's tenure. Listen to almost every post-match interview last season and the them is that we "need to look after the ball better". The longer that goes on (and let's face it 18 months is a while) the more it comes back to coaching and what we're asking the players to do.

Edited October 8, 2018 by capt_oats

[BigTamMuller]

Intriguing to see what this International break does to the team with the aforementioned run of fixtures to come that we'll probably be starting to look at in the "not must win, but certainly can't afford to lose category" - if we can't get anything from St Mirren or Dundee then we rightly deserve to be in that bottom 3/4 area. Ideal world Campbell gets some sort of a break, but International Duty beckons and that's fair enough. 

Confidence is something that group could really do with, and we need it to come from somewhere. Not quite sure what Dunne coming back into the team will do for that, as defensively I'm not massively concerned, yet, but moreover the other end of the park There's 100% merit to both the points made on the shape and lack of quality among the personnel - looking at Saturday's lineup there wasn't much to be excited about in terms of where the spark would come from and it was pretty telling our goal came from 1, Campbell winning the ball high up the park, and 2, a deflection from a Bowman shot that looked to be going straight at their keeper. 

I've been massively on board the Cadden either in the middle of the park somewhere, and Tait back in his natural position camp for quite some time now, and tbh I just don't think Cadden is good enough to actually play anywhere other than RWB where he safely does a job most games, but rarely sparkles - given a choice between the two at that position I'd have Tait any day, but personal preference would see us shift back to a back 4 with him at RB and actually give ourselves more options up the park. 

A lot of ramblings that have been harder to articulate than I thought coming out of the game on Sat, but hopefully this break period will see some work on the training field on "looking after a football" ...

 

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

What’s the odds of us parachuting in a season-saving Turkish maverick in January?

He's got 4 goals in 9 appearances (218 mins of actual football) in Turkey. I doubt he'll be going anywhere. 

[well fan for life]

Just now, capt_oats said:

He's got 4 goals in 9 appearances (218 mins of actual football) in Turkey. I doubt he'll be going anywhere. 

I just miss him so much