Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, BigTamMuller said:

Did Jake Hastie get called up?

He was called up for the last squad...must have been some sort of oversight this time I guess.

[well fan for life]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

If the manager believes we don't have striker capable of playing the "lone striker" well enough, then why the f**k are we playing a system that relies heavily on a lone striker that needs to get the ball early, hold it up and bring others into play?

As much as I've not bought into the possibility of it happening, as I didn't think we could afford it, but does Kyle Lafferty knocking back Killie, plus stating his priority is to stay in Scotland, signal a potential deal at Fir Park?  Still a long shot I'd say, but considering the standard of player signed so far, I'd bite your hand off for him.

In terms of outgoings, hopefully some non-entity takes Ilic on loan.  Also, if we do get a striker in, I would like to see Scott go on at loan, even if it's just until January.  I think 15-20 games in the Championship will do him the world of good.  I rate him highly, but he's not quite ready just yet for me. 

Exactly this. Lafferty is probably out of our price range but a big hammer throwing striker is exactly what we're after.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Fair play to Scott. Wasn't aware Ubermensch babies crafted in 1980s East German laboratories were eligible for Scotland call ups

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, well fan for life said:

Exactly this. Lafferty is probably out of our price range but a big hammer throwing striker is exactly what we're after.

I think the price range thing really depends on big weird Kyle tbh.

If he's set on staying in Scotland (and the Premiership specifically) then you presumably rule out Celtic, obviously Rangers seeing as they binned him, Aberdeen have Cosgrove, Wilson, Main and (for the time being at least) May, Hearts have Uche, Washington, Naismith and Maclean. Hibs have spent cash on Doidge and still have Kamberi on the books.

He's apparently pied Killie as he didn't think it was "right" for him.

That leaves him looking at us, St Johnstone, St Mirren, Accies, Livi and County. He's going to be taking a hilariously massive cut from his wage at Rangers by signing for any of those tbh and that's even if we were to max out our pay scale. 

Tbh, the centre forward thing is only part of the problem IMO. Seedorf and Hylton have qualities and they might come good over time but at this moment they're back-up at best. The 433 worked last season because of Gboly and Hastie (plus Cadden to a degree) out wide. I fully get that on our budget we're not buying in the finished article and the players coming in will need coaching and improvement but it's difficult to see the same shape working with a front 3 of project players.

For me we're looking at a #9 plus a first team winger or we change the plan.

Edit to add: #YoungMotherwell finishes 3-3 away to County.

2-0 down after 12 mins, 3-1 down at H/T. Cornelius brace and Tanner with the goals.

Edited August 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

Take it Tanner’s only contracted till the end of this month? 

[capt_oats]

6 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Take it Tanner’s only contracted till the end of this month? 

The official line on the Update on playing squad back in May was:

Quote

Craig Tanner has been offered a short-term deal to help ensure he regains full fitness, following a long-term knee injury that has sidelined him since March 2018.

When Craig is fit to rejoin training, he will be assessed by the coaching staff with a view to winning an extended contract.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited August 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[Casagolda]

Yeah, it was never made particularly clear. I just remember them saying they wouldn’t release him until he was back fit- or words to that effect.

If he’s contracted to us beyond August though, am I not right in saying he couldn’t sign for anyone else till the window re-opens in January?

So it would make sense for it to run till August and for both parties to go from there.

[Mr Hahn]

Has all hope been lost that Tanner will every play for us again?

[capt_oats]

10 minutes ago, Casagolda said:

Yeah, it was never made particularly clear. I just remember them saying they wouldn’t release him until he was back fit- or words to that effect.

If he’s contracted to us beyond August though, am I not right in saying he couldn’t sign for anyone else till the window re-opens in January?

So it would make sense for it to run till August and for both parties to go from there.

Yeah, that was the gist from the question asked at the AGM. That we wouldn't just bin him if he wasn't able to pass a medical, however any contract offered would be reflective of his situation.

You're correct of course. If he was contracted beyond August then he's our player until whatever point the contract expired.  I'd guess it would depend on his rehab schedule since as you say it was never made clear how "short-term" the short-term contract actually was eg: a 6 month deal to take him up until January would probably fall into a "short-term" deal bracket and would cover his re-hab over the summer and give us an opportunity to see how his knee reacts to games.

I guess it really depends on the spirit of the agreement we have with him.

Are "doing the right thing" by him and getting him fit or are we actually rehab-ing him with a view to him extending as a Motherwell player. I know @Busta Nut was saying earlier he didn't really see Tanner as a winger (and I agree, he's more of a second striker/#10) but I can imagine him cutting in off the right into that 'area' in the same sort of way Hastie did and ngl I'd have a fit Tanner ahead of any of Hylton, Seedorf or Ilic in that position at the moment.

[RandomGuy.]

I'm fairly sure you're not allowed to offer contracts shorter than 6 months, fwiw.

[capt_oats]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm fairly sure you're not allowed to offer contracts shorter than 6 months, fwiw.

Nah, there was someone that we got on a deal for a couple of months a couple of summers ago that allowed the player to play in the LC group stages. It was a workaround the rule about not being able to play trialists.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm fairly sure you're not allowed to offer contracts shorter than 6 months, fwiw.

Are you sure? We signed Steven Hughes from November until January ages ago. Mind Aberdeen signing Andrew Driver in March/April until the end of the season as well. 

I'm sure there's more recent examples.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Nah, there was someone that we got on a deal for a couple of months a couple of summers ago that allowed the player to play in the LC group stages. It was a workaround the rule about not being able to play trialists.

 

1 minute ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Are you sure? We signed Steven Hughes from November until January ages ago. Mind Aberdeen signing Andrew Driver in March/April until the end of the season as well. 

I'm sure there's more recent examples.

I thought that about Connor Sammon and his apparent "one month contract" at Falkirk, but @Skyline Drifter stated different. Although I could've picked his post up wrong.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Rules made by mere mortals don't apply to the Sammon.

[capt_oats]

22 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Are you sure? We signed Steven Hughes from November until January ages ago. Mind Aberdeen signing Andrew Driver in March/April until the end of the season as well. 

I'm sure there's more recent examples.

Lee Lucas was the one I was thinking of.

The initial contract ran from July until the end of August (which is essentially what @Casagolda is suggesting will be the case with Tanner) and allowed him to play in the LC games without committing further than that.

Quote

Motherwell

Lucas signed a short-term contract with Scottish club Motherwell in July 2016.[25] He played in a Scottish League Cup tie against Annan Athletic, but was forced off due to injury.[26] On 31 August 2016, Lucas was released from his contract,[27] but then on 14 September 2016, he signed a contract with the club until January 2017.[28] On 10 January 2017, he extended his contract until the end of the 2016–17 season.[29] He was released by Motherwell at the end of the 2016–17 season.[30]

The next contract ran September to January (per below).

Quote

LUCAS SIGNS FOR THE STEELMEN

Wednesday 14 September 2016

Motherwell FC is today delighted to announce that midfielder Lee Lucas has signed a short-term deal with the club.

The former Swansea man has been with the club through the summer on a trial with a view to impress the manager.

And impress he did, as the 24-year-old penned a deal that keeps him with the Fir Parkers until January – with potential for the deal to be extended.

Link

 

Edited August 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

The Lafferty thing is really weird tbh. As the Captain said, if he's serious about staying in Scotland there's only about five teams he could really end up at, and he's already kb'd one of them. He lives in East Kilbride, his brother in law and International pal are both on the coaching staff, and Robinson is apparently actively looking for an experienced, first team quality lone striker. 

Tinfoil hat on, but I think there's definitely something going on. Maybe we've agreed something provisionally but he's decided to wait on Hearts coming in for him, or us to get someone off the wage bill first etc. Either way it really wouldn't surprise me if we end up signing him on deadline day.

[Al B]

Perhaps like the rest of us, he's waiting to see Hylton or Seedorf put a cross in, to get an idea of the service.

January window imho.

[capt_oats]

24 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

The Lafferty thing is really weird tbh. As the Captain said, if he's serious about staying in Scotland there's only about five teams he could really end up at, and he's already kb'd one of them. He lives in East Kilbride, his brother in law and International pal are both on the coaching staff, and Robinson is apparently actively looking for an experienced, first team quality lone striker. 

Tinfoil hat on, but I think there's definitely something going on. Maybe we've agreed something provisionally but he's decided to wait on Hearts coming in for him, or us to get someone off the wage bill first etc. Either way it really wouldn't surprise me if we end up signing him on deadline day.

The chat seems to be that O'Dea is on his way tbf.

Quote

Darren O'Dea is set to quit East Kilbride after making just two appearances for the club.

The 32-year-old former Celtic defender, who lives in the town, only joined the Lowland League champions in May, but his head has been turned by an opportunity that sources say is too big to turn down.

O'Dea is currently under-18s coach at Motherwell - a role he was juggling with playing duties at K-Park - and he is expected to stand down from that job as well to pursue the new position.

The other thing with Lafferty apart from the obvious, well documented sketchiness is....in his own words:

Quote

“He watched me every day in training and I will be the first to hold my hand up and admit I’m not the best trainer.

“My performances in training and in games are night and day.

"The manager has judged me in training and clearly that’s prevented me getting more games."

Link

Robinson's clearly worked with him at international level but given he goes big on intensity and all that it's a bit of a red flag right there.

Edited August 19, 2019 by capt_oats

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm fairly sure you're not allowed to offer contracts shorter than 6 months, fwiw.

 

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

Nah, there was someone that we got on a deal for a couple of months a couple of summers ago that allowed the player to play in the LC group stages. It was a workaround the rule about not being able to play trialists.

 

1 hour ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Are you sure? We signed Steven Hughes from November until January ages ago. Mind Aberdeen signing Andrew Driver in March/April until the end of the season as well. 

I'm sure there's more recent examples.

 

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

 

I thought that about Connor Sammon and his apparent "one month contract" at Falkirk, but @Skyline Drifter stated different. Although I could've picked his post up wrong.

It's not 6 months, but the minimum term of a professional contract in Scotland under SPFL rules is until the first day of the next transfer window. So you can sign a player such as Hughes above in November or indeed on December 31st if he's a free agent and contract him to 1st January as that's the 1st day of the next window. You could have a 2 day contract in theory but it has to last to the next window.

Which means you cannot contract someone in June or July and sign them only to the end of August. If it's an existing player whose existing contract was not expired you could certainly extend it to whatever date you wanted. But a new player coming in during the open summer window would have to be contracted to January 1st as a minimum.

Of course, you could contract someone to January 1st with all parties agreeing mutually that it will be cancelled at an earlier date as a Gentleman's Agreement. Obviously if it were cancelled after the summer window closes (which is 2nd September this year) then that player wouldn't be able to play professionally above Lowland League until January. Falkirk CANNOT have contracted Connor Sammon, Denny Johnstone or anyone else only to 31 August but they may have mutually agreed with them to cancel the contract at that date I suppose. If the player changed his mind and didn't sign the cancellation though they'd be stuck with him.

[capt_oats]

12 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

If it's an existing player whose existing contract was not expired you could certainly extend it to whatever date you wanted.

Cheers. The above would apply in Tanner's case.

All the other stuff means the Lee Lucas stuff makes sense as well. We had him on a "short term" deal that was mutually cancelled on 31st August to avoid him being stuck at the club then re-signed in September through to January. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by capt_oats