PauloPerth Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Genuinely, which Saints players would you say have played at a high enough standard this season? Possibly Muzz? Zander been okay but certainly not outstanding. When selected... Liam Gordon, Chris Millar ?? Struggling to think of anymore so yes, picking out Scougall as underperforming seems selective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, Radford said: My eyes aren't seeing these scoring chances, are yours? All these various statistics are very nice but no substitute for watching matches and I'm just not seeing this creative force. In fact, I'm struggling to remember any glaring opportunities he's created that should have been put away. He's tricky and skillful but do you get a sense of expectation when he's on the ball? That was certainly there with Swanson for me. I do still harbour hopes he can live up to expectation. Also, I'm certain you have the capability of checking the goalscoring records of both Swanson and Scougall. Ones ghat stick out are Rangers and Aberdeen at home, he had multiple cut backs in those games where nobody had the brains to just hold back and have a tap in. He's not creating enough goals, that's something we both agree on. Whether thats his fault for not being good en out, TWs for playing him out of position, or his team mates fault for never getting onto any pass, is a matter of opinion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, PauloPerth said: Struggling to think of anymore so yes, picking out Scougall as underperforming seems selective. Who picked him out? A fan of another team asked about him and the chat has evolved from there. It's hardly a new thread started pillorying the guy! But since the issue is raised, I do think he's under more scrutiny for a couple of reasons: the player he was brought in to replace and the money he'll be earning. Would struggle to name anyone that's performed really well on a consistent basis this season. A vote for POTY would be telling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 7 minutes ago, Radford said: Targeted for ire? Really? It's a discussion about a player, coincidentally kicked off when you responded to a post by saying there wasn't enough end product from him... And nobody has even said they don't like him as player! You highlighted Scougall as a player who has "let the manager down" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Radford said: Who picked him out? A fan of another team asked about him and the chat has evolved from there. It's hardly a new thread started pillorying the guy! But since the issue is raised, I do think he's under more scrutiny for a couple of reasons: the player he was brought in to replace and the money he'll be earning. Would struggle to name anyone that's performed really well on a consistent basis this season. A vote for POTY would be telling. Im not saying he's being pilloried. Just joining the chat to say we could pick pretty much any one of our squad and say they haven't come up to the standard we would hope for, relative to the level of expectation on each individual. Was he brought in to replace Swanson though? Wasn't that MOH? I initially thought he was brought in to bring a bit of a creative presence to the centre of the park, which we'd been missing for a couple of seasons. The way he's been used this season though, I'm now not exactly sure which role he was earmarked for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The discussion was already about Scougall! Look, if I'd started a thread and opened with a post about letting the manager down then the case is there that he's being singled out. Contributing to a conversation about a player who is already the topic is hardly doing a hatchet job on the guy. I stand by what I said about Scougall but totally refute the idea I've somehow singled him out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Heliums Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 The only sense of genuine disappointment comes from expectations that were perhaps unduly high last summer, fanned by Tommy's feverish pursuit of him. We certainly expected more from Scougall than, say, Liam Craig. I agree that given the right players around him and playing in the right position, we may still see something from him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 In terms of the obvious effort to sign him plus his role in the team plus his likely wages then Scougall has not made the impact that I'd been expecting. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: Was he brought in to replace Swanson though? I think so. He's not the same player but that doesn't mean he wasn't the replacement. He has the ability that he should be able to play in any attacking midfield position. He maybe has looked best more centrally but even there obviously hasn't done enough to make himself undroppable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 I can't make my mind up if the failure to address the squad issues is down to Brown or Wright. Or an unfortunate combination of both their decision making. Has TW been forced to be overly loyal to ageing players due to financial restrictions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, The Saintee said: I can't make my mind up if the failure to address the squad issues is down to Brown or Wright. Or an unfortunate combination of both their decision making. Has TW been forced to be overly loyal to ageing players due to financial restrictions? It's not #TeamSteve or #TeamTommy despite the apparent desires for some fans to make it that way. They've both made mistakes. The manager has got some big targets he wanted but not others, he's got a lot of contracts renewed but some allowed to slip away. There's been quiet windows and... less quiet windows. You've got a five-year period to assess which would take up far too much time but looking at the last year, the suggestion has been that Swanson would have signed a contract in the autumn but it was clearly on improved terms so has Brown been reluctant to sanction it in October or November when he could instead be paying him however much less until March or April? Should the chairman be offering a player the manager wants to keep (Scobbie) a 35% reduction in his salary? But then he's delivered Scougall and McMillan who were big targets. I'm more in the manager's camp but have sympathy with the chairman on some fronts and certainly don't like the way he's having so much pinned on him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 12 minutes ago, Radford said: I think so. He's not the same player but that doesn't mean he wasn't the replacement. He has the ability that he should be able to play in any attacking midfield position. He maybe has looked best more centrally but even there obviously hasn't done enough to make himself undroppable. Okay I'm not sure he was, but we'll have to agree to disagree as I don't know what the mangers thinking was at the time. Saintee- who really knows. I don't imagine our budget is significantly less than when we won the Cup, which suggests our failure to bring in players of a comparable standard has been an issue. The Premiership is also probably stronger than it's been for a couple of seasons, while we've got weaker, or at the very best stayed the same. The frustrating thing is, it feels like there are a good number of talented young players (including those in the Development Squad as well as those around the first team), and if we can see it out this season, we could be on the cusp of seeing quite an exciting young side. Might just be wishful thinking of course! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cilitbang Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Sorry guys.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radford Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PauloPerth said: I don't imagine our budget is significantly less than when we won the Cup, which suggests our failure to bring in players of a comparable standard has been an issue. The chairman said recently it was 30% to 40% higher! But I think it was at its lowest point back then, it had certainly dropped from the end of the McInnes reign. Are players getting more or is it just bigger though? I guess that is important when assessing it. Edited February 7, 2018 by Radford 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, Radford said: It's not #TeamSteve or #TeamTommy despite the apparent desires for some fans to make it that way. They've both made mistakes. The manager has got some big targets he wanted but not others, he's got a lot of contracts renewed but some allowed to slip away. There's been quiet windows and... less quiet windows. You've got a five-year period to assess which would take up far too much time but looking at the last year, the suggestion has been that Swanson would have signed a contract in the autumn but it was clearly on improved terms so has Brown been reluctant to sanction it in October or November when he could instead be paying him however much less until March or April? Should the chairman be offering a player the manager wants to keep (Scobbie) a 35% reduction in his salary? But then he's delivered Scougall and McMillan who were big targets. I'm more in the manager's camp but have sympathy with the chairman on some fronts and certainly don't like the way he's having so much pinned on him. Yeah. I'm inclined to think it's been a cumulative effect of mistakes from both sides that have led to this situation we're in just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Scougall is one of our better players imo. He's one that was targeted by the manager, it's not his fault what the club pays him, they offered it to him. Give me 4 or 5 players like Scougall who are payed handsomely and have good footballing ability, backed up by the youngsters over the mess we currently have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fife Saint Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Verge of a Radford meltdown here, tread carefully kids. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 Just now, Fife Saint said: Verge of a Radford meltdown here, tread carefully kids. Hope a Dee annoys him, we all know what happens then..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelsjfc Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 To wade into the Scougall chat, just because everyone else has, I'd argue Swanson was given much more freedom to express himself than Scougall has been allowed. Swanson spend a lot of time more or less in a free role in a 4-4-1-1 where Scougall has spent most the season as a traditional wide midfielder with much more defensive responsibilities. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 19 minutes ago, The Saintee said: Yeah. I'm inclined to think it's been a cumulative effect of mistakes from both sides that have led to this situation we're in just now. Definitely. It's hard to gauge when you've got TW moaning about not getting his targets every window, which piles the blame onto the chairman, and then the chairman himself has an ill informed article in the paper which heaps more of it towards him. I'd be interested to know who's decision it was to renew the likes of Mackay and Wrights contract, and then release them a few months later, and whether those sort of situations have affected the transfer business since. I'd also be curious to know who decided to give the likes of Keith Watson a two year contract. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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