Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Widge]

I actually think the biggest issue is, that the media are desperate for us to lose our amazing team. They’ve honed in on the fact that realistically the players can never improve on last season and have won everything they possibly could at saints already. The likes of Kerr, McCart and Rooney just need to have a word with the likes of Stevie May about how it is down south and maybe they’ll see another year up here makes sense, before moving in the summer. Ideally in that case, saints put a new contract in front of them with a minimum release clause and that sets the stall out for all parties quite clearly. 

[The Saintee]

Some of these numbers are really disappointing but I'm not going to be shite myself until we see something from Saints.

[Fife Saint]

Holy shit, I didn't realise it was that high?! Livi's by comparison is 1m

Livi's turnover is £1m? Find that hard to believe.

Edit: abbreviated accounts online but his site has this below which feels more like it.

[Radford]

How, if at all, do you prevent what may be about to happen occurring again? But then for years we've complained about our players not getting recognition...

I think with Tommy Wright, the board maybe didn't trust his judgement fully on players. He was happy to sign, sign, sign but then discard them pretty quickly. 

If Davidson can show more aptitude (allied with his actual ability to work with and coach players) then maybe you can risk longer initial contracts? 

It won't stop players leaving but strengthens your hand at least.

Going to be very interesting to see how we replace such good players. 

[perthsaint1977]

you will never stop it happening as unfortunately, agents do not want clients signing deals until explored all avenues.

I know for a fact that players were approached in  January about extending current deals, but agents/players are not willing to enter talks until nearer time of contract ending (so they can see what else is out there)

 

[Widge]

11 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

you will never stop it happening as unfortunately, agents do not want clients signing deals until explored all avenues.

I know for a fact that players were approached in  January about extending current deals, but agents/players are not willing to enter talks until nearer time of contract ending (so they can see what else is out there)

 

This is always the case now. Unless you've got a player who's happy to stay at saints and basically demands to sign a new contract then there's little to be done. I can fully expect the likes of Jason Kerr wanted to sign a new deal, but saints won't be able to get the agent on the phone or in for a meeting as they don't want that for their client. It's a shame that's how the world is currently working in football and until something is done about the agents it will keep happening, as they're only after their largest slice. 

[perthsaint1977]

Just now, Widge said:

This is always the case now. Unless you've got a player who's happy to stay at saints and basically demands to sign a new contract then there's little to be done. I can fully expect the likes of Jason Kerr wanted to sign a new deal, but saints won't be able to get the agent on the phone or in for a meeting as they don't want that for their client. It's a shame that's how the world is currently working in football and until something is done about the agents it will keep happening, as they're only after their largest slice. 

100% spot on - folk will see this as saints not being proactive - but they are - just the way football agents work now, agents will not enter talks early as could be doing them out of another 2% by punting their client to the back of beyond

[Widge]

1 minute ago, perthsaint1977 said:

100% spot on - folk will see this as saints not being proactive - but they are - just the way football agents work now, agents will not enter talks early as could be doing them out of another 2% by punting their client to the back of beyond

Agents are slowly killing football frankly at all levels. 

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be denying Jason Kerr a move to Bournmouth, that would be a really, really good step for him in his career and is exactly the sort of move he should be making. It's the reported fee that isn't right and I don't for a second think saints will accept anything les that £600k + add ons for Kerr. Which whilst not a massive amount for your captain, is still significant money for a guy in the final year of his contract that I would put money on moving for a chunky sum later in his career. I'd even be willing to take a lower fee now if it means we get a 20% future fee. 

[perthsaint1977]

Just now, Widge said:

Agents are slowly killing football frankly at all levels. 

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be denying Jason Kerr a move to Bournmouth, that would be a really, really good step for him in his career and is exactly the sort of move he should be making. It's the reported fee that isn't right and I don't for a second think saints will accept anything les that £600k + add ons for Kerr. Which whilst not a massive amount for your captain, is still significant money for a guy in the final year of his contract that I would put money on moving for a chunky sum later in his career. I'd even be willing to take a lower fee now if it means we get a 20% future fee. 

spot on - anyone thinking Steve Brown will just accept any bid obviously does not know him. I trust him to get the very best deal for any of our players. 

[RandomGuy.]

It's been like that for a long time now. Key seems to be making sure you've got a succession plan in place.

I'm not saying the club haven't done that, and I know scouting, then signing, players is arguably the hardest part of football, but we should already have a list of 6/7/8 names of players to replace Kerr/McCart/Rooney.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

4 minutes ago, perthsaint1977 said:

100% spot on - folk will see this as saints not being proactive - but they are - just the way football agents work now, agents will not enter talks early as could be doing them out of another 2% by punting their client to the back of beyond

What makes it harder for Saints is one of the out of contract players has been telling fans he wants to sign for at least another year but has had no contact from the club...

Said while drunk but doesn't help the situation.

[Widge]

5 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

What makes it harder for Saints is one of the out of contract players has been telling fans he wants to sign for at least another year but has had no contact from the club...

Said while drunk but doesn't help the situation.

Aye, but when all the players are saying "Go through my agent", the club aren't speaking to the players directly. You're in a vicious cycle of the club trying to negotiate with an agent, who won't respond, who'll then tell the player they haven't made any progress, then the player will assume the club isn't being proactive. 

In an ideal world the club would sit the player down and say this is what we're offering you do you want to sign and that would be that, but there's so many other processes and stupid layers to the game now it becomes impossible for clubs to ever win out of it. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

I know how they work etc.

I was just pointing out the fact players are telling supporters that kind of thing makes the public perception even harder to manage for Saints.

It then also feeds into the narrative the club isn't being pro-active when actually behind the scenes they are being. 

Not that there's much they can do about that though I imagine. Surely the club do say to the player we want to offer you a new deal and have contacted your agent to discuss?

 

Edited June 30, 2021 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[perthsaint1977]

6 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

I know how they work etc.

I was just pointing out the fact players are telling supporters that kind of thing makes the public perception even harder to manage for Saints.

It then also feeds into the narrative the club isn't being pro-active when actually behind the scenes they are being. 

Not that there's much they can do about that though I imagine. Surely the club do say to the player we want to offer you a new deal and have contacted your agent to discuss?

 

Remember Stevie May saying he wanted to stay etc - few weeks later he was gone.

[perthsaints99]

Unless you’re Man City or Barcelona, you can’t win a cup double in any league and expect to keep your squad together for the following season. Unfortunately, we’re victims of our own success, but we need to be careful not to go down the same route as United when they lost half of their squad in 2015... We all know how that turned out

[Kyle]

1 minute ago, perthsaints99 said:

Unless you’re Man City or Barcelona, you can’t win a cup double in any league and expect to keep your squad together for the following season. Unfortunately, we’re victims of our own success, but we need to be careful not to go down the same route as United when they lost half of their squad in 2015... We all know how that turned out

That's exactly it. We could go from top of the world to really struggling if we lose the 4 players who have been attracting interesting from down south. Clark has had loads of positive press and has entered the last year of his contract too, so I wouldn't be surprised if a league one club had a go at signing him as well.

I think some of the money will have to reinvested in the squad. We're not replacing the players we're potentially losing with free transfers alone, and  not cheaply either.

[The Real Saints]

Honestly, Shaun Rooney having any sort of ‘valuation’ seems wrong to me. He is a cult hero. An icon. A force of nature. He isn’t a mere footballer. If we’re judging him solely on his football abilities, how much is he worth with one year left of his contract? 500k? Certainly not much more than is currently being offered. This isn’t a life-changing, significant amount of money for St Johnstone, especially considering the influence that Rooney has on this team. As far as I’m concerned, I’d be happier to keep him here even if it meant that his contract runs out and we lose him for nothing after one more season.

[RandomGuy.]

22 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I think some of the money will have to reinvested in the squad. We're not replacing the players we're potentially losing with free transfers alone, and  not cheaply either.

And even then it'll probably be players who aren't able to match Kerr/McCart/Rooney performances straight away too.

If they all leave its yet another massive test for Davidson to overcome.

[Kyle]

25 minutes ago, The Real Saints said:

Honestly, Shaun Rooney having any sort of ‘valuation’ seems wrong to me. He is a cult hero. An icon. A force of nature. He isn’t a mere footballer. If we’re judging him solely on his football abilities, how much is he worth with one year left of his contract? 500k? Certainly not much more than is currently being offered. This isn’t a life-changing, significant amount of money for St Johnstone, especially considering the influence that Rooney has on this team. As far as I’m concerned, I’d be happier to keep him here even if it meant that his contract runs out and we lose him for nothing after one more season.

This is my view on Rooney. I can't believe the club are looking to sell Rooney for a reported fee of £300k when he scored two goals that won 2 separate cup finals, and the supporters haven't had a chance to see him play in the flesh. If we're talking a much higher sum then fair enough, but if its really £300k then I feel thats pretty short sighted.

[DukDukGoose]

4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

This is my view on Rooney. I can't believe the club are looking to sell Rooney for a reported fee of £300k when he scored two goals that won 2 separate cup finals, and the supporters haven't had a chance to see him play in the flesh. If we're talking a much higher sum then fair enough, but if its really £300k then I feel thats pretty short sighted.

It's difficult. There's a lot more to consider than what we as fans think a player is worth. I'd imagine he's not being compensated at the level of a £300k a year player. With a year left to run on his contract there's a lot to consider. For the player a shite season or a bad injury can drastically reduce his value or attractiveness to other clubs. For St Johnstone is he good enough to earn the club another £300k over the course of the year? If so then letting him no for nothing next summer isn't too big a problem.

For players like McCann who have a couple of years left this is where you hold the aces. To sell him for £1m would be a travesty.