Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Aye, dunno exactly how it all works in terms of what Saints are telling each club, but you really just need one or two clubs to either panic, or go "f**k it", and the price starts heading upwards quickly.

I think the big misconception is that "bidding wars" actually exist and compare it with an auction where interested parties are bidding against each other.

The reality is more likely to be the case that once they've got past the initial stage Saints brief anyone who's seriously interested a price that's acceptable to them and it goes from there. Let's say, for arguments sake, that price is £1m plus 15% sell on based on the risk of losing one of your best players, the value he brings to the team (cup wins, league finish etc), the interest the player has in leaving etc if a club offer that then Saints accept that and sell him. They don't wait to see if someone else offers £2m.

Similarly if another club matches that or has a variation that's appealing then it's over to the player to choose.

The benefit of there being a lot of interest is that it increases the probability of Saints getting the price/deal that's acceptable to them.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

I think the big misconception is that "bidding wars" actually exist and compare it with an auction where interested parties are bidding against each other.

I'm just going on the assumption that every side in for him is one he'd leave us for. All of them could offer far more financially than we can.

More hope than anything that one of them tries to "jump the queue" and offers Saints more money to try and encourage us to reject other offers, with the knowledge McCart is highly likely to join them. Probably naive.

In happier news a paper in Hull is reporting we rejected an offer from them for Ali McCann, saying it was "significantly below" our valuation. Headline hints it was a £1m bid.

Edited July 4, 2021 by RandomGuy.

[Zamora Fan]

This close season is gonna be a big test of Callum’s managerial nous. After the board/interested parties/agents deal with transfer fees and bidding wars etc the manager will in all likelihood be in a position where he has to replace at least 2/5 (poss 3/5) of our incredibly effective defense. And that’s without any interest in Liam Gordon, which could materialise if the other two leave..

He’s proved he can coach and man manage a team to near perfection in terms of our achievements in the second half of last season. Now he has to prove he can identify good, affordable replacements for key players that ensure we don’t suffer, all the while negotiating with SB about how much (if any) of any transfer fees can go toward any small transfer fees to in contract players or decent sign on fees etc to make us an attractive proposition for anyone out of contract. All while picking up the 1/2 first choice forward players we still need to be able to come straight into the team. Not easy, especially when the biggest games in our season are probs the European ones in a few weeks.

If he does accomplish that and we have another good season, the sky (or Barcelona) is the limit for him as a manager. Or maybe the Scottish national team?

[Radford]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

The reality is more likely to be the case that once they've got past the initial stage Saints brief anyone who's seriously interested a price that's acceptable to them and it goes from. 

There is absolutely no need for Saints to do that if there is concrete interest from several clubs. 

It's the inverse of the old Peter Risdale/Seth Johnson fiasco, where Saints sell a player for £x and a club strides away chuckling as they'd have been prepared to pay £y to get him, given the competition. 

We've rejected circa £200,000 from Hibs, so let's see what someone else comes up with. 

Of course his agent will be aware of what is going on but maybe Barnsley don't want him to be able to talk to Forest, so are happy to bid a bit more to get exclusivity to talk to him.

Six clubs puts Saints in a much stronger position than if it was just one. They'd be foolish not to use that power. 

[Zamora Fan]

There is absolutely no need for Saints to do that if there is concrete interest from several clubs. 
It's the inverse of the old Peter Risdale/Seth Johnson fiasco, where Saints sell a player for £x and a club strides away chuckling as they'd have been prepared to pay £y to get him, given the competition. 
We've rejected circa £200,000 from Hibs, so let's see what someone else comes up with. 
Of course his agent will be aware of what is going on but maybe Barnsley don't want him to be able to talk to Forest, so are happy to bid a bit more to get exclusivity to talk to him.
Six clubs puts Saints in a much stronger position than if it was just one. They'd be foolish not to use that power. 

Obviously it isn’t an auction hall bidding war or whatever but surely it works a little bit like Saints waiting for a bid, and then telling other interested parties what the bid is and waiting for them to make an increased bid if they’re interested enough and so on until only one club is left with the highest number? Would seem a little silly if we accepted the same lowish offer from all of the clubs and then let the player decide... we have the power! We don’t have to sell for cheap.

[Radford]

I genuinely stick him on eBay and see what happens. Auction for five days or a Buy It Now price of, say, £1 million.

We should even offer free postage. 

[RandomGuy.]

1 minute ago, Radford said:

I genuinely stick him on eBay and see what happens. Auction for five days or a Buy It Now price of, say, £1 million.

We should even offer free postage. 

You're joking, but there's genuinely a Tinder type app where clubs can advertise their players amongst other clubs these days.

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, capt_oats said:

I think the big misconception is that "bidding wars" actually exist and compare it with an auction where interested parties are bidding against each other.

The reality is more likely to be the case that once they've got past the initial stage Saints brief anyone who's seriously interested a price that's acceptable to them and it goes from there. Let's say, for arguments sake, that price is £1m plus 15% sell on based on the risk of losing one of your best players, the value he brings to the team (cup wins, league finish etc), the interest the player has in leaving etc if a club offer that then Saints accept that and sell him. They don't wait to see if someone else offers £2m.

Similarly if another club matches that or has a variation that's appealing then it's over to the player to choose.

The benefit of there being a lot of interest is that it increases the probability of Saints getting the price/deal that's acceptable to them.

Aye.

The bidding war is usually the wages offered to a player. If At Johnstone accept £500k from MK Dons but actually wants to go to Nottingham Forest then player and agent will demand they accept the £500k offer from them too.

[Radford]

Saints fans will do well to ignore the passive aggressive offerings from opposition fans here. 

Clubs who sell players for millions or demand such fees, telling us we can't use a strong bargaining hand to ensure we get more than £200,000 for Jamie McCart. 

Right you are.

[RandomGuy.]

15 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Aye.

The bidding war is usually the wages offered to a player. If At Johnstone accept £500k from MK Dons but actually wants to go to Nottingham Forest then player and agent will demand they accept the £500k offer from them too.

I mean, did Aberdeen not reject an offer for Lewis Ferguson this Summer despite the player and agent "demanding they accept the offer" via a transfer request?

On a side note, one of the sides linked with Kerr (Oxford) have just sold their RCB in the last hour.

[The Saintee]

Genuinely stunned there are teams in our own league interested in our journeymen cloggers.

[TommyDickFingers]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

did Aberdeen not reject an offer for ...

 

19 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

If St Johnstone accept £500k from...

therein lies the difference in this hypothetical scenario no? 

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, TommyDickFingers said:

Therein lies the difference in this hypothetical scenario no? 

Well not really. Neither side wants to sell their player.

Both sides have plenty of interest in their player.

Aberdeen reject an offer and don't give any valuation to sell, hoping multiple clubs involved then start to up their bids, all confirmed by his agent.

St Johnstone reject an offer and potentially do the same. Give no amount and hope the clubs start making increasingly higher offers.

Not entirely sure why Aberdeen doing this is believable, while St Johnstone doing it is some ridiculous notion.

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Well not really. Neither side wants to sell their player.

Both sides have plenty of interest in their player.

Aberdeen reject an offer and don't give any valuation to sell, hoping multiple clubs involved then start to up their bids, all confirmed by his agent.

St Johnstone reject an offer and potentially do the same. Give no amount and hope the clubs start making increasingly higher offers.

Not entirely sure why Aberdeen doing this is believable, while St Johnstone doing it is some ridiculous notion.

What are you on about?

I said if St Johnstone accept a bid then another team who the player favours a move to will bid the same price. Player and agent will kick off if the club demand more.

The same would happen to Ferguson. If Watford offer £3m and we accept it but his favoured team notes an interest then we're not going to ask them to pay more.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

The same would happen to Ferguson. If Watford offer £3m and we accept it but his favoured team notes an interest then we're not going to ask them to pay more.

Then I'd suggest Aberdeen are a very stupid club.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Radford said:

I genuinely stick him on eBay and see what happens. Auction for five days or a Buy It Now price of, say, £1 million.

We should even offer free postage. 

 

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

You're joking, but there's genuinely a Tinder type app where clubs can advertise their players amongst other clubs these days.

There would be so much merit in this from a selling club's point of view.

Find out if the player is set on not signing on again, tell all interested clubs the minimum acceptable bid, get confirmation from player/ agent which clubs he would go to, then have an online auction over a 48 hour period. Set our own transfer window if you like. If the deals are unacceptable, player stays until January.

That way we get deals done on our terms, not hanging over player and club during pre season and the start of the season, and we have time to look for a replacement and know how much we have to spend, and hopefully get them in plenty of time to bed in with teammates.

 

[DukDukGoose]

5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Then I'd suggest Aberdeen are a very stupid club.

Oh dear.

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Oh dear.

It's true.

If Aberdeen accept a bid when there's clubs willing to pay more then that's stupid.

Neither Aberdeen or St Johnstone want to sell Ferguson/McCart, so quite why they'd bother setting prices is pointless. Motherwell are different since their entire shtick is selling players and they're fairly transparent about that.

Obviously they know a price they'll want to go, but there's zero point rushing to accept anything when there's 3/4 other clubs expected to come in with bids later.

[DukDukGoose]

1 minute ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's true.

If Aberdeen accept a bid when there's clubs willing to pay more then that's stupid.

Neither Aberdeen or St Johnstone want to sell Ferguson/McCart, so quite why they'd bother setting prices is pointless. Motherwell are different since their entire shtick is selling players and they're fairly transparent about that.

Obviously they know a price they'll want to go, but there's zero point rushing to accept anything when there's 3/4 other clubs expected to come in with bids later.

I feel like you've completely misread what I said.

I said that once a club makes an acceptable bid then that's the price any team will pay. From there the 'bidding war' is he offers the player the most acceptable terms.

[capt_oats]

32 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

There would be so much merit in this from a selling club's point of view.

Find out if the player is set on not signing on again, tell all interested clubs the minimum acceptable bid, get confirmation from player/ agent which clubs he would go to, then have an online auction over a 48 hour period. Set our own transfer window if you like. If the deals are unacceptable, player stays until January.

That way we get deals done on our terms, not hanging over player and club during pre season and the start of the season, and we have time to look for a replacement and know how much we have to spend, and hopefully get them in plenty of time to bed in with teammates.

Graeme Mathie was talking about the thing @RandomGuy.'s referring to. I think it was Hibs, Motherwell and Rangers who've been mentioned as having been involved so far along with other "European Heavyweights".

Quote

Mathie talks up TransferRoom

It's the dating app for football clubs and Hibs sporting director Graeme Mathie admits it's proved very useful to his side in recent years - during an interview with Not The Old Firm.

"It’s a clever idea, it’s almost like an unofficial transfer list.

Every club that accesses it can make players available for transfer, either permanently or for loan. It’s happened recently where we’ve got a name and we weren’t quite sure whether he was available.

His club were thankfully on TransferRoom. We were then able to find out whether they thought he was available for a transfer or loan.

You can go as far as putting in the value of your players, so it is nice and easy to see how much money clubs would consider for their players.

Otherwise, you ask them to make contact with you. You can even organise things like friendlies with clubs. It’s just an easy way for clubs to connect. There are events where you can go and meet people and we have did business with some of these people since.

In terms of a networking tool, it’s brilliant. Agents will always be in the conversation at some point but this is a way to get quick and easy answers from clubs. I use it regularly and there’s some really interesting bits to it. For the English clubs, there is a government endorsement calculator, which estimates whether a player can get a work permit."

Make of that what you will.

Edited July 4, 2021 by capt_oats