Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Nadroj]

9 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

I'll PM you M8.

Claiming you’re signing Scott McKenna and Ryan Jack. lol. 

[tree house tam]

2 minutes ago, Nadroj said:

Claiming you’re signing Scott McKenna and Ryan Jack. lol. 

Right you are, we must be waiting till they come back from the Euros before being unveiled.

[Kyle]

12 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

We had expensive deadwood last season, cheap deadwood is something bottom of the league clubs are inevitably having.

I'd rather we just signed players who aren't obvious failures waiting to happen. I'd take either of them being capable back ups who come in 10 games a season but, given the make up and size of squad already, they'll clearly be more involved than that. 
 

We need much better, proven quality from all the signings who are still to come. 

Edited June 20 by Kyle

[craigkillie]

9 hours ago, Pizzo said:

Would've been more than happy to keep Sanders if we had the budget for a massive squad. He's played more for Cove and Ayr than for us since we got promoted.

Decent player and a likeable boy too. Levein may just be exactly what his career needs.

Based on what? He was barely good enough in the Championship, and couldn't fight off the stern competition of Euan Murray, Chris Stokes and Dylan McGowan. He was lucky to get a contract last season, the only reason he would have been kept on is because he would have been willing to be cheap back-up with little chance of playing.

[RandomGuy.]

3 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I'd rather we just signed players who aren't obvious failures waiting to happen. I'd take either of them being capable back ups who come in 10 games a season but, given the make up and size of squad already, they'll clearly be more involved than that. 

It's the middle of June.

I think we'll see 4/5 leaving quite easily, on loan or permanently and that takes us to a squad of about 17/18? Sure Levein spoke before of wanting a squad of about 24/25?

So there could easily be 7 starters still to be signed.

[DunkeldRoad01]

Sanders makes sense if he is a cheap back up option who could improve and offer more than that. Think Tommy Wright signed him for Kilmarnock and he was usually a reasonable judge of a player. 
 

Not as keen on Mcpake as there is less evidence to suggest he can contribute at this level but a lot of different factors at play and can only really judge fully once the squad is completed at the end of the transfer window. 

[Nadroj]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

Based on what? He was barely good enough in the Championship, and couldn't fight off the stern competition of Euan Murray, Chris Stokes and Dylan McGowan. He was lucky to get a contract last season, the only reason he would have been kept on is because he would have been willing to be cheap back-up with little chance of playing.

This is my exact thoughts too. He seems to be better in some fans minds than he was in reality. See also, Kerr McInroy. 

[The Saintee]

Pretty underwhelming. And I'd far rather we were signing some notable quality given our issues the last few years.

Especially as the midfield looks absolutely stinking.

[Kyle]

9 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

It's the middle of June.

I think we'll see 4/5 leaving quite easily, on loan or permanently and that takes us to a squad of about 17/18? Sure Levein spoke before of wanting a squad of about 24/25?

So there could easily be 7 starters still to be signed.

Oh I don't know, the squad quota is quite quickly filling up now - we've got 3 senior centre backs signed - McClelland, Olufunwa, Sanders - so I can't see us signing more than 2 cbs now and we regularly play 5 at the back. One of those will play most weeks most likely and none of them give you much confidence that they're going to make it at this level. Levein has talked about wanting to run with a smaller squad as well. 
 

right now we're probably looking at the following being our strongest 11:

 

Rae 

Olufunwa McClelland Sanders Keltjens 

Wright Sprangler McPherson Carey

Sidibeh Clark

Other than maybe Sidibeh, is there anyone in that 11 you're confident is much better than relegation fodder at this level? 

 

Edited June 20 by Kyle

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Oh I don't know, the squad quota is quite quickly filling up now - we've got 3 senior centre backs signed - McClelland, Olufunwa, Sanders - so I can't see us signing more than 2 cbs now and we regularly play 5 at the back. One of those will play most weeks most likely and none of them give you much confidence that they're going to make it at this level. Levein has talked about wanting to run with a smaller squad as well. 
 

right now we're probably looking at the following being our strongest 11:

 

Rae 

Olufunwa McClelland Sanders Keltjens 

Wright Sprangler McPherson Carey

Sidibeh Clark

Other than maybe Sidibeh, is there anyone in that 11 you're confident is much better than relegation fodder at this level? 

 

For me Olufunwa will be away on loan or released IMO, if he's in the discussion at all it's for the RB spot.

So CB wise it's just McClelland and Sanders, with 3 mega wages off the book to be spent on 2, or 1 depending on McClelland, since Sanders will be on peanuts.

I think the McPake signing suggests we'll be playing with wingers so 4-4-2/4-3-3 is the way we'll go.

In that starting eleven I'd say Keltjens, Wright, Sprangler, Carey, Sidibeh, and Clark, are all better than a team that gets relegated if they aren't surrounded by shite. McClelland was apparently a standout for United last season too so I'm not sure we judge him on what he done for us under MacLean.

 

If we go into the opening day with...

Rae

Keltjens - McClelland - NEW LCB - NEW LB

Wright - MacPherson - Sprangler - Carey

Sidibeh - Clark

Subs: Sinclair, Olufunwa, Sanders, Kucheriavyi, Matt Smith, McPake, May, Kimpioka, Ikpeazu 

It's not ideal but it's not a disaster either. Realistically we need a top quality centre back, left back, and central midfielder, at the minimum. 

[The Saintee]

My worry about McClelland is that he might have looked ok in a team that was attacking 90% of the time. We won't be doing that.

[RandomGuy.]

7 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

My worry about McClelland is that he might have looked ok in a team that was attacking 90% of the time. We won't be doing that.

Aye he's a bit of an unknown tbf, but there's a chance actually having a structured pre-season and an actual squad/shape around him helps with us.

We're still recovering and needing to build a "core" again, so gambles are going to be taken and if they work out then great.

We'll be one of the most unappealing clubs to join in the top flight and will be back down the lower end money wise. We won't be signing quality until they've made sure we're the best option that have so we'll have a wait for it, I think.

[Kyle]

I 100% agree with us not being particularly appealing - players who need to prove themselves will always be our market. 
 

However if we target a player and he's got other options in our top flight on similar money, will he really choose us when he gets to play with McPake, Sanders, Olufunwa etc? I just don't see the point in squandering money on players who must have about a 1% chance of being up to it given their past history. 

[RandomGuy.]

21 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I just don't see the point in squandering money on players who must have about a 1% chance of being up to it given their past history. 

I think we'll be squandering money on punts regardless due to the amount of turnover we need (again). I think we've seen now that if you're signing 10 or more players in a window then your hit rate, at best, will see you have a handful of duds. Are they going to give us less than Olufunwa/McClelland/Turner-Cooke/Jephcott gave us last season? Add Crawford in too? The saving financially between that lot and these two is potentially 2 starting quality players.

Its almost the same situation as last season, but a different approach to it. I think signing cheap u23s with senior experience as back up is risky but better than complete kids, but if its because you're focusing time/money on nailing the 4-5 starting players you want then its worthwhile. You get that sorted then over time you filter the cheap duds out if they've not been up to it and try to snowball a decent squad together again with 2-3 good players every season.

Edited June 20 by RandomGuy.

[Theyellowbox]

I think these 2 signings are relatively low expense punts that if work will be good and if don't, will bulk the squad out a bit.

Slight concern for me is that the lack of news on owner might mean that the budget is still unclear and we could end up missing out on more senior signings. Each passing day makes me think more and more there is an issue. Everything would have been done bar the league approvals, so there should be no hold up really. 

[Stuntiethumper]

4 hours ago, The Real Saints said:

Are Sanders and McPake the two signings that the ITK people were getting me excited about?

McPake? Seriously underwhelmed at Queens Park. Had one move to cut to the inside and that was his box of tricks as a winger. Defenders soon figured that out and he was ineffective.  He spent games flapping his arms at folk in frustration until he was benched. Rarely made and appearance for us in the second half of the season. Better hope he has improved (a lot) since then.

[Costanza]

Flapping his arms at folk? Will fit right into midfield next to Cameron MacPherson.

[WattersIsGod]

1 hour ago, Stuntiethumper said:

McPake? Seriously underwhelmed at Queens Park. Had one move to cut to the inside and that was his box of tricks as a winger. Defenders soon figured that out and he was ineffective.  He spent games flapping his arms at folk in frustration until he was benched. Rarely made and appearance for us in the second half of the season. Better hope he has improved (a lot) since then.

He hasn't.

He's still exactly the player you described.

The cut inside and shoot move will work once and then frustrate you constantly.

He loves a good moan at a linesman too.

I thought he'd maybe scrape a full time gig in the championship or one of the better teams in league one. I just can't see him being effective at the top level.

His best performances for us were both against Edinburgh City.

[Beepee67]

Josh McPake 

Definitely a 1 trick pony...can't believe he's got a move to St Johnstone...then again you have Avril Levien in charge....is he still doing his team talks from the bookies

Anyway Josh McPake ..... so you will see him get the ball....drag it inside...pass to nobody..try work a shot which is normally a sclaf or fall over & moan at the linesman....point blank refuses to pass.....same move every single time....even 1st div defender's caught onto it last season 

Will be no more than a bench warmer....apart from that he's ok

[Dunning1874]

I totally get the principle of taking punts on players who are unproven at your level as cheap cover in the hope they have something about them, particularly when they're young. If they develop into a better player than expected and you've unearthed a hidden gem then great, if they don't then you've cheaply padded out the squad with someone who barely plays rather than having someone with that amount of playing time making Ali Crawford money.

The issue is that Josh McPake should fit that profile of unproven cheap cover for a League One club and is probably a risk too far for a Championship club, never mind a Premiership club that needs a rebuild to escape a cycle of too much deadwood landing them in relegation battles. There's gambling on cheap options with a bit of potential, then there's burning money on players who've done absolutely nothing in their careers to suggest they're close to a Premiership player for the sake of it.