Fullerene Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 10 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said: Can anyone explain why the BBC is now producing vox pops with woefully ill-educated members of the great British public on a daily basis ? It allows people to express an opinion without being challenged. "Britain will be great again selling unicorn ivory to China which is not allowed under EU rules". Also it prevents any expert coming along and going into detail. "Do you think 'No deal' is worth it to curb immigration?" "Well, I work for the Migration Studies Institute and it really isn't that simple .." "Oh dear, is that the time?" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 "Easiest deal in History" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Fullerene said: It allows people to express an opinion without being challenged. Yes. Universal suffrage does the same thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) I hope the EU say it's a 21 month extension or No Deal. Loads of drama, we'd have to prepare for the EU parliament election and probably a UK GE when anything could happen. I've given up hoping for a good outcome, just going to order shed loads of popcorn and stock up on tinned food and whisky. Edited March 13, 2019 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Unless May can get the ERG out their safe seats (and stop local Tory associations selecting mad Brexiteers) an election doesn't really do her any good even if she wins. They will just come back and cause more trouble. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob Mahelp Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 32 minutes ago, Detournement said: Unless May can get the ERG out their safe seats (and stop local Tory associations selecting mad Brexiteers) an election doesn't really do her any good even if she wins. They will just come back and cause more trouble. Back in 2016, it's was May's decision to interpret the narrow Leave vote as a mandate for the extremists in her party to dictate the type of Brexit there would be. Hence all the 'red lines'. 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'blue, red and white Brexit' garbage. How she must regret that now, as it's all come back to bite her, big time. If she'd taken the common sense, pragmatic approach, and said that 'yes, we'll leave the EU but for the benefit of the country as a whole we'll remain aligned to the single market, and it'll be a 'soft' Brexit', then the Labour party may well have been on board and she wouldn't be looking the embarrassing shambles she is today. But she didn't. She chose the hard-right, and she chose to try and use Brexit for her own party's benefit. And because of that, she and the rest of the pathetic bunch of Tory incompetents, are purely responsible for the mess they've created today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 9 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said: Back in 2016, it's was May's decision to interpret the narrow Leave vote as a mandate for the extremists in her party to dictate the type of Brexit there would be. Hence all the 'red lines'. 'Brexit means Brexit' and 'blue, red and white Brexit' garbage. How she must regret that now, as it's all come back to bite her, big time. If she'd taken the common sense, pragmatic approach, and said that 'yes, we'll leave the EU but for the benefit of the country as a whole we'll remain aligned to the single market, and it'll be a 'soft' Brexit', then the Labour party may well have been on board and she wouldn't be looking the embarrassing shambles she is today. But she didn't. She chose the hard-right, and she chose to try and use Brexit for her own party's benefit. And because of that, she and the rest of the pathetic bunch of Tory incompetents, are purely responsible for the mess they've created today. Agree with most of that but Labour wouldn't have supported anything she came up with, their 6 rules made that impossible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: Agree with most of that but Labour wouldn't have supported anything she came up with, their 6 rules made that impossible. You contradict yourself slightly. If May had come out in support for a softer Brexit with access to the single market, then I think Labour would have supported her as jobs, investment and movement would have been protected at that point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieson87 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 It's hard to disagree with this. I can't see Parliament coming up with, or even agreeing for that matter on "something" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, zidane's child said: You contradict yourself slightly. If May had come out in support for a softer Brexit with access to the single market, then I think Labour would have supported her as jobs, investment and movement would have been protected at that point. That would probably require freedom of movement which was ruled out by Corbyn. He might have changed on that now but he's hasn't explicitly said so. Labour's strategy was for May to make an arse of it but for Brexit to happen and the Tories get the blame. Edited March 13, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, jamieson87 said: It's hard to disagree with this. I can't see Parliament coming up with, or even agreeing for that matter on "something" This as well. Quote He says a long extension of article 50 would mean Nigel Farage staying on as an MEP. He would continue to get his salary, which he could pay into his offshore company, and he would continue to be able to do his “dirty work” in the EU. Verhofstadt says he would be opposed to any article 50 extension unless the UK has decided what it wants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: That would probably require freedom of movement which was ruled out by Corbyn. He might have changed on that now but he's hasn't explicitly said so. Labour's strategy was for May to make an arse of it but for Brexit to happen. And there's the key point - freedom of movement. May, as Home Sec, ramped up the anti-immigration rhetoric. It continues to underpin Brexit. Corbyn has always been anti-EU and Labour are complicit in their pathetic posturing. And as for a Labour strategy, well that's oxymoron of the day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamieson87 Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, welshbairn said: This as well. It would also mean Farage campaigning under his Brexit party. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 It looks like Corbyn will try to get Parliament to support Labour’s proposal. I can’t see that happening; even Remainers on the Tory bench would find it difficult to vote for legislation that comes from the Leader of the Opposition. The only way it could happen would be if May took a cross-party approach and I cannot see that happening now partly due to her own intransigence and partly due to the potential backlash from many of her own MPs. I think there would be more support from the Tory side for a second referendum than for Corbyn sponsored legislation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Is there realistically a deal that can make it through parliament that will be acceptable to the EU? If the Brexiteers really want to exit the EU then they may have to sacrifice N.Ireland and inevitably Scotland. Otherwise they may never see their dream come true. So what is more important to them, the UK or Brexit? It may just come down to making that decision 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Detournement said: Unless May can get the ERG out their safe seats (and stop local Tory associations selecting mad Brexiteers) an election doesn't really do her any good even if she wins. They will just come back and cause more trouble. The idea is that the Tories would run on a manifesto specifically of May's deal then the ERG don't really have a leg to stand on. Either run on the manifesto and vote for the deal if the public backs it by re-electing you, or leave the Tories and run as an independent. 11 minutes ago, Colkitto said: Is there realistically a deal that can make it through parliament that will be acceptable to the EU? If the Brexiteers really want to exit the EU then they may have to sacrifice N.Ireland and inevitably Scotland. Otherwise they may never see their dream come true. So what is more important to them, the UK or Brexit? It may just come down to making that decision With the current make up of parliament (ie no GE to change the arithmetic) the only thing that I think has a prayer is the softest of soft Brexits Norway style EEA deal getting cross party support. That would require an extension of A50 for sure, but I could see most of the Tory party supporting this, apart from the ERG, as well as Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems, possibly TIG Edited March 13, 2019 by Donathan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Detournement said: Unless May can get the ERG out their safe seats (and stop local Tory associations selecting mad Brexiteers) an election doesn't really do her any good even if she wins. They will just come back and cause more trouble. Furthermore, if May can get a narrow Tory majority in an election then it means the backstop could be binned as she would no longer rely on DUP votes. The new solution would be a hard sea border between Northern Ireland and rUK and Northern Ireland would get a special status in the customs union. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londonwell Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Rumours going around that May has lost her voice and may not be able to lead in debates today 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SweeperDee Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Rumours going around that May has lost her voice and may not be able to lead in debates today:lol: She was sounding a bit hoarse yesterday. Probably too much ERG boaby. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moniton Posted March 13, 2019 Share Posted March 13, 2019 Her strategy is/was based on winning over her own party rather than a cross party solution, in the 2 months of negotiations since her defeat in the commons she has only persuaded 40 of her colleagues to change their minds, she has to look in the mirror and go. I have absolutely no sympathy for any of the b*****ds but there must be a special place in hell for this incompetence. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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