Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

4 minutes ago, MixuFixit said:

I got phoned by Populus the other day but only twigged it was the polling company after I had put the phone down on them assuming it was just the usual sales call.

What did they ask you, out of interest? I mean, is it just the questions as they would publish, or do they ask age/marital status/race/political leaning in  to get more info about the respondents?

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

What did they ask you, out of interest? I mean, is it just the questions as they would publish, or do they ask age/marital status/race/political leaning in  to get more info about the respondents?

 

Presumably they didn't get as far as asking him anything!

I would probably have done the same thing if I got a call from someone wanting to ask me a few questions.

[Cerberus]

Pelosi getting Boris telt-
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49348062

 

[ICTJohnboy]

Philip Hammond providing more effective opposition to the PM than Jeremy Fucking Corbyn.

[Donathan]

Philip Hammond providing more effective opposition to the PM than Jeremy Fucking Corbyn.

Only the case if Hammond and his mates are prepared to VONC the government

[Granny Danger]

9 minutes ago, Donathan said:

 

Only the case if Hammond and his mates are prepared to VONC the government

 

There’s a few Labour MPs who might not/will not support a confidence vote against the Tories and even if such a vote is successful then Corbyn will f*ck up the inter party negotiations that will follow.

 

 

[Donathan]

11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

There’s a few Labour MPs who might not/will not support a confidence vote against the Tories and even if such a vote is successful then Corbyn will f*ck up the inter party negotiations that will follow.

 

 

Every single Labour MP vote for the last VONC, even those who backed May's Brexit deal.

 

At the moment there are 310 Tory MPs, 10 from the DUP and 1 independent who are believed to support the government. 321 in total.

 

The opposition consists of 245 Labour, 35 SNP, 14 independents, 13 Lib Dems, 5 from what is left of ChangeUK, 4 Plaid Cymru and 1 green. 317 in total.

 

For a successful VONC, you need a clear majority (in a 319-319 tie the speaker will support the government), so only 3 rebels are needed or 5 abstentions. 

[Granny Danger]

4 minutes ago, Donathan said:

Every single Labour MP vote for the last VONC, even those who backed May's Brexit deal.

 

At the moment there are 310 Tory MPs, 10 from the DUP and 1 independent who are believed to support the government. 321 in total.

 

The opposition consists of 245 Labour, 35 SNP, 14 independents, 13 Lib Dems, 5 from what is left of ChangeUK, 4 Plaid Cymru and 1 green. 317 in total.

 

For a successful VONC, you need a clear majority (in a 319-319 tie the speaker will support the government), so only 3 rebels are needed or 5 abstentions. 

At least one Labour MP (I think John Mann but that could be wrong) has been quoted as saying he might not support such a motion.

Lots of right wing nutters on the Labour benches do he might not be alone.  

Meanwhile this dinosaur c**t completely ignoring what most Labour Party members and voters want.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/14/no-path-to-a-second-referendum-says-unite-leader

ETA are you factoring in Kate Hoey in your figures?

Edited August 14, 2019 by Granny Danger

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

5 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I meant the swing in favour of Labour once the Public actually got to hear the message. As I'm sure you are very well aware. 

Labour's policies gained massive public approval. The Tories piss-poor campaign helped, undoubtedly - when your flagship policy which actually makes it* is to retain free tv licenses for your core support**, they'd have got absolutely creamed without BBC and Press support. 

This time round, with Brexit completely fucked up, austerity (over or not) continuing to bite, and deeper, Public Services continuing to be decimated, more and more people are being personally affected by these horrible, horrible people. What exactly can a Tory tell a potential voter is a good enough reason to support them, given the collateral damage already evident to our society, status and our people after ten years of their policies?

*Taxing the dead being a step too far - although I wouldn't rule it out next time around. If that traitor Patel can make a come-back, all bets are off on this.

** Which they reneged on, while sneakily trying to pretend it was all the nasty old Beeb. 

'Hear the message'. What does that mean ?

I'm a fairly average political observer and I've got no real idea what Labour stand for on pretty much anything. The problem for Labour at this moment in time is that they've been caught with their trousers yanked down and look like they have answers to....well, absolutely nothing. 

A forthcoming GE is going to have a shot, sharp campaign which, in England certainly, will be fought on one issue and one issue alone.  Given that Labour have no cohesive policy on Brexit, given that the Corbyn bounce is long gone, and given that the vast amount of voters (including Labour voters) think that he's a dithering, indecisive fool, the chances of Labour getting across some sort of schoolboy socialist message which will inspire vast swathes of England to vote for them is virtually zilch.

Labour's vote will splinter in England to the Lib Dems. on one hand, and to the Tories/ Brexit party on the other. 

In Scotland, the vast amount of Labour votes will thankfully be hoovered up by the SNP.

Labour are dead in Scotland, and they're a few short weeks from going that way in the rest of the country. RIP, and good riddance.

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by Bob Mahelp

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Bob Mahelp said:

'Hear the message'. What does that mean ?

I'm a fairly average political observer and I've got no real idea what Labour stand for on pretty much anything.

 

Do you not recall the 2017 manifesto?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Just now, Detournement said:

Do you not recall the 2017 manifesto?

As I said, I see myself as a fairly average member of the public. For the better or for worse, I'll look first of all at the bigger picture that a party presents and if I'm then interested I'll look at the details. 

And the bigger picture for Labour, is not a pretty one I'm afraid. 

Labour over the last 5 years have been on the wrong side of history twice. They dug their own grave in Scotland by siding with the Tories in 2014, and they're repeating the mistake now in the rest of the UK by refusing to oppose the Tories tooth and nail over Brexit. 

They only have themselves to blame.

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, Bob Mahelp said:

As I said, I see myself as a fairly average member of the public. For the better or for worse, I'll look first of all at the bigger picture that a party presents and if I'm then interested I'll look at the details.

Aye you are probably best avoiding details tbh

[Jacksgranda]

6 hours ago, MixuFixit said:

I got phoned by Populus the other day but only twigged it was the polling company after I had put the phone down on them assuming it was just the usual sales call.

They'll have you down as a "Don't Know".

[Donathan]

14 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

At least one Labour MP (I think John Mann but that could be wrong) has been quoted as saying he might not support such a motion.

Lots of right wing nutters on the Labour benches do he might not be alone.  

Meanwhile this dinosaur c**t completely ignoring what most Labour Party members and voters want.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/14/no-path-to-a-second-referendum-says-unite-leader

ETA are you factoring in Kate Hoey in your figures?

 

Kate Hoey voted with Labour on the last VONC. She's a raging Brexiteer, but she's still a Labour MP and thus her main aim is to dispose of the Tory government and get Corbyn into number 10.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

Just now, Detournement said:

Aye you are probably best avoiding details tbh

Not checking every detail of every party manifesto doesn't mean that I can't make an informed decision on how I want go vote.

Do you think that 95% of voters UK-wide read manifestos ?

Like many people on here and in Scotland in general, my general outlook on politics means that the Labour party should be my natural home. Once upon a time, they were.

No longer. I gave up on Labour years ago, and it's appalling to see what they've become under Corbyn. I don't believe I'm the only one that thinks that way.

[Detournement]

Just now, Bob Mahelp said:

 

Do you think that 95% of voters UK-wide read manifestos ?

The vast majority of people don't pay close attention to politics and will hear about manifesto policies via the media when there is a election. That is exactly what White Rose Killie was saying earlier. Labour can only get their message to the voters they need when the campaign starts.

Quote

 

Once upon a time, they were.

No longer. I gave up on Labour years ago, and it's appalling to see what they've become under Corbyn. I don't believe I'm the only one that thinks that way.

 

I don't understand this at all. The policies under Corbyn are exactly what traditional Labour supporters want. An end to austerity, easing the housing crisis, attempting to end in work poverty, improved workers rights, publicly owned utility companies, nationalised railways and regulated buses, an end to our participation in the war in Yemen and a Green New Deal to combat climate change and act as a stimulus for the economy.

What they have become is a socialist party again.

[ICTJohnboy]

16 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

No longer. I gave up on Labour years ago, and it's appalling to see what they've become under Corbyn. I don't believe I'm the only one that thinks that way.

 

You're not.

[ICTJohnboy]

12 minutes ago, Detournement said:

 

What they have become is a socialist party again.

 

Are they a Remain or a Leave socialist party?

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

 

I don't understand this at all. The policies under Corbyn are exactly what traditional Labour supporters want. An end to austerity, easing the housing crisis, attempting to end in work poverty, improved workers rights, publicly owned utility companies, nationalised railways and regulated buses, an end to our participation in the war in Yemen and a Green New Deal to combat climate change and act as a stimulus for the economy.

What they have become is a socialist party again.

Yeap, and while this attracts a small minority of the converted, the whole package does not and will not attract 'middle range' voters who aren't interested in socialism. 

Since it's formation, the Labour party have been out of power for something like 85% (without checking figures) of the time. The Labour party for 85% of their existence, have been a protest party in opposition.

And Corbyn seems happy and determined to keep that run going. 

If there's a GE in a month or so, there's a fair chance that a coalition of right-wing extremists will run a horse and coaches through the middle ground that Labour have deserted in UK politics. 

And if Labour lose seats and many thousands of voters, where will they go from there ? Labour's natural voters are no longer voting for  them.....in 15 to 20 years time there will be barely anyone left alive in the UK who has worked in real heavy industry, or is a member of a strong trade union. 

But no power or influence or any chance of recovery is fine, as long as Labour is 'socialist'. 

[DrewDon]

2 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

If there's a GE in a month or so, there's a fair chance that a coalition of right-wing extremists will run a horse and coaches through the middle ground that Labour have deserted in UK politics. 

What is the "middle ground" in British politics at the moment, though?