Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

If you read carefully you'll see that I was talking about 'them'...the other Brexit voters.

I voted  brexit because I hate the undemocratic, political vanity project that has created the  largest closed shop economy in the world to the detriment of the developing world and emerging nations.  My day to  day life isn't particularly impacted negatively or positively as I don't see the EU as the  purveyors of all that is good or bad in my life......I hate the concept of an EU Empire and ever closer union and so took my chance to get the f**k out......Any part of that you don't understand? 

No, you can't come up with a single way in which membership of the EU has had a negative impact on your life, but you want to leave without caring what consequences that might have. What's the next step up from exceptionally thick?

[McSpreader]

Just now, welshbairn said:

No, you can't come up with a single way in which membership of the EU has had a negative impact on your life, but you want to leave without caring what consequences that might have. What's the next step up from exceptionally thick?

That's an illustration of your ignorance ^^^^right there!

I've a dog to walk ......after River City , I might reply then!

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

8 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I'm anti EU so not sure what you are getting at. Turkey doesn't need the EU.

You're anti-sanity, M8. Nobody said Turkey 'needs' the EU. Your pish about 'emerging nations' being shut out is all I was highlighting.

[NotThePars]

If there wasn't a sea separating Africa from Europe the EU would build a wall. I don't see how the government which took in 20 child refugees is going to suddenly address the EU's pisspoor approach to the vast displacements of peoples in the world.

[strichener]

12 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

If there wasn't a sea separating Africa from Europe the EU would build a wall. I don't see how the government which took in 20 child refugees is going to suddenly address the EU's pisspoor approach to the vast displacements of peoples in the world.

Isn't this part of the issue with the Calais camps etc.  The agreement within the EU is that they determine refugee and asylum eligibility at the first place on entry.  Given that there are no large contingent of Icelandic or Faroese trying to flee their own country, then there should be no need for the UK to have border force etc. in France.

We certainly should be contributing to any humanitarian efforts that are required for people fleeing persecution and war.  Given the relative population densities within the EU then the UK should certainly be pressing for this to happen on mainland Europe.   If anything, the EU's determination to keep these people outside the EU by bribing non-EU countries shows the hypocrisy of their position on UK proposal for EU nationals.

Edited July 11, 2017 by strichener

[NotThePars]

Isn't this part of the issue with the Calais camps etc.  The agreement within the EU is that they determine refugee and asylum eligibility at the first place on entry.  Given that there are no large contingent of Icelandic or Faroese trying to flee their own country, then there should be no need for the UK to have border force etc. in France.
We certainly should be contributing to any humanitarian efforts that are required for people fleeing persecution and war.  Given the relative population densities within the EU then the UK should certainly be pressing for this to happen on mainland Europe.   If anything, the EU's determination to keep these people outside the EU by bribing non-EU countries shows the hypocrisy of their position on UK proposal for EU nationals.

Liberal Remainers only care about freedom of movement when it affects EU nationals. That doesn't mean I think people like McSpreader can get on their high horse particularly when there was talks of a free movement bloc with the white majority members of the Commonwealth.

[John Lambies Doos]

Bollocks....Only you are that stupid.They aren't. They voted exactly they way they wanted. Sorry if that bothers you......NOT!

NOT!!

[killiefan27]

12 hours ago, McSpreader said:

For over 50 years politicians have arrogantly been imposing on the UK electorate that which they think is in our best interests  rather than that which the majority really want and in the process changing society to their detriment......talking about manifestos and the like is irrelevant to the the majority of voters as they don't read them but rely on TV analysts to tell them what's in them. ....That's the reality, I'm sorry to say.

That's how representative democracy works.

We, in theory, elect people who are better qualified than the average person to decide on the issues facing the country.

They take decisions which they think will be in the best interests of their constituents, and if their constituents don't like it they can vote for someone else.

This is why calling a referendum on EU membership was insanity, as the vast, vast majority of people - and I include myself in this - weren't remotely qualified to make that kind of decision.

I was qualified enough to know leaving was a stupid idea (though I'm no fan of the EU), but plenty has come out since the referendum that I'll freely admit I didn't know anything about.

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

You're anti-sanity, M8. Nobody said Turkey 'needs' the EU. Your pish about 'emerging nations' being shut out is all I was highlighting.

The emerging nations of Africa, Asia, South/central America etc is what I was referring to.  The EU wants to dominate them and exploit them not have them as equals.

Turkey doesn't want to be in the EU as there is a cultural differential that can never be bridged and they want to be a protagonist in regional  politics/conflicts, but they do want to give an impression of wanting to be in the EU, maybe in the future so as not to be isolated.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

So you'd be pro EU if they opened the borders to anyone, anytime, anywhere? Your dislike of the EU is all down to protectionism, after all.

[McSpreader]

55 minutes ago, killiefan27 said:

That's how representative democracy works.

We, in theory, elect people who are better qualified than the average person to decide on the issues facing the country.

They take decisions which they think will be in the best interests of their constituents, and if their constituents don't like it they can vote for someone else.

This is why calling a referendum on EU membership was insanity, as the vast, vast majority of people - and I include myself in this - weren't remotely qualified to make that kind of decision.

I was qualified enough to know leaving was a stupid idea (though I'm no fan of the EU), but plenty has come out since the referendum that I'll freely admit I didn't know anything about.

That's fair for as long as politicians do their best to represent their electorate to their material benefit.......the EU supersedes the UK electorate. It's taken a while, but the UK electorate realise that now which is why the material benefit of EU nationals are far more important than the UK's.

Whilst the nations of the EU were of a similar economic standing all was well. Once the EU subsumed the East/Southern European nations the less well off  and less economically pliable in the UK were always going to suffer.

The one thing the Remain campaign failed to do was address the concerns of the vast number of UK citizens who were/are not benefitting from EU membership and seeing their pay/jobs/conditions/communities being sacrificed for the EU vanity  project of OneNationEurope. They are the EU's cannon fodder in this war of ideals.

 

[McSpreader]

15 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

So you'd be pro EU if they opened the borders to anyone, anytime, anywhere? Your dislike of the EU is all down to protectionism, after all.

Trade should be barrier free if within the law.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

2 hours ago, McSpreader said:

I voted  brexit because I hate the undemocratic, political vanity project that has created the  largest closed shop economy in the world to the detriment of the developing world and emerging nations.  

I applaud your altruistic vote on Brexit. To use your vote to save the poorest people in the 3rd world from the evil EU empire is truly wonderful. Some would call this virtue signalling but not me.

Clearly the best way to help these people is to turn our back on Europe and give up our influence. It is rumoured the workers on the coffee bean plantations of El Salvador can often be heard chanting 'Jake Rees-Mogg' as they struggle to earn a living under the watchful eye of the EU gestapo. As the women of the remote Zambian village of Tongwa  make there way to the local well for water, they can often be seen collecting small pieces of debris for the villages' planned statue of Nigel Farage.

Thankfully, we can use our own Foreign Aid budget to help these poorer nations.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/743161/Britain-to-pay-EU-from-Foreign-Aid-Budget-after-Brexit

Leaving the undemocratic EU can only strengthen our far more democratic system including our unelected House of Lords and monarchy.

[McSpreader]

Just now, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

I applaud your altruistic vote on Brexit. To use your vote to save the poorest people in the 3rd world from the evil EU empire is truly wonderful. Some would call this virtue signalling but not me.

Clearly the best way to help these people is to turn our back on Europe and give up our influence. It is rumoured the workers on the coffee bean plantations of El Salvador can often be heard chanting 'Jake Rees-Mogg' as they struggle to earn a living under the watchful eye of the EU gestapo. As the women of the remote Zambian village of Tongwa  make there way to the local well for water, they can often be seen collecting small pieces of debris for the villages' planned statue of Nigel Farage.

Thankfully, we can use our own Foreign Aid budget to help these poorer nations.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/743161/Britain-to-pay-EU-from-Foreign-Aid-Budget-after-Brexit

Leaving the undemocratic EU can only strengthen our far more democratic system including our unelected House of Lords and monarchy.

I absolutely agree that the H.o.L is undemocratic and would replace it forthwith, just as I would abolish the FPTP system.

We don't need to be 'influencing' Europe as we can conduct business under the auspices of our own standards of free and fair trade  and leave Europe to conduct their business the way they see fit.

We would be free to create trading relationships with anyone and everyone without waiting for the EU to dictate terms and conditions.

Maybe that scares you......it inspires me!

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

4 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I absolutely agree that the H.o.L is undemocratic and would replace it forthwith, just as I would abolish the FPTP system.

So, you agree that the UK is just as 'undemocratic' as the EU. You'll also accept that the only way we're getting rid of the HoL and FPTP is by voting for independence.

14 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

We don't need to be 'influencing' Europe as we can conduct business under the auspices of our own standards of free and fair trade  and leave Europe to conduct their business the way they see fit.

We would be free to create trading relationships with anyone and everyone without waiting for the EU to dictate terms and conditions.

We don't need influence with our continental neighbours and biggest trading partners ?

18 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Maybe that scares you......it inspires me!

The only thing that scares me about Brexit is the thought of my friends, work colleagues and neighbours either being sent home or treated as second class citizens. I'm also not particularly keen on the Tories getting stuck into a whole host of environmental and workers rights.

Nothing inspires me about Brexit, because after all, I can't feed myself or my family on Union Jacks.

[AUFC90]

56 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

That's fair for as long as politicians do their best to represent their electorate to their material benefit.......the EU supersedes the UK electorate. It's taken a while, but the UK electorate realise that now which is why the material benefit of EU nationals are far more important than the UK's.

Whilst the nations of the EU were of a similar economic standing all was well. Once the EU subsumed the East/Southern European nations the less well off  and less economically pliable in the UK were always going to suffer.

The one thing the Remain campaign failed to do was address the concerns of the vast number of UK citizens who were/are not benefitting from EU membership and seeing their pay/jobs/conditions/communities being sacrificed for the EU vanity  project of OneNationEurope. They are the EU's cannon fodder in this war of ideals.

 

In what way were normal people in the UK not benefiting from EU membership ? Which jobs/conditions/communities have been sacrificed by joining the EU ? The mighty UK was a basket case before joining the EU. 

I don't like the undemocratic and capitalist nature of the EU either but don't over the egg the pudding. There's good and bad things that come with being a member and the good bits FAR outweigh the bad.

[Cerberus]

I can just see some plummy accented Tories wright out workers and environmental rights now-
A limit of 35 hour week? Nah.
Paid holidays? Nah.
Health and Safety? Nah.
Maternity Leave? Nah.
Equality? Nah.
 

Unrestricted Fracking. Great.
Weird imported vegetables from China grown in heavily polluted ground. Great.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

28 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

 I don't like the undemocratic and capitalist nature of the EU either but don't over the egg the pudding. There's good and bad things that come with being a member and the good bits FAR outweigh the bad.

This is it in a nutshell. I often feel uncomfortable defending the EU however, being a member with significant influence and pushing for reform was always the sensible option.

Brexit (and Trump) were knee jerk reactions to complex issues. Globalization, immigration, wage contraction, the rich/poor gap, an increasingly malign corporate influence.

It's just some folk haven't realised that Brexit and Trump are just more of the same but with added nationalism.

[McSpreader]

7 hours ago, AUFC90 said:

In what way were normal people in the UK not benefiting from EU membership ? Which jobs/conditions/communities have been sacrificed by joining the EU ? The mighty UK was a basket case before joining the EU. 

I don't like the undemocratic and capitalist nature of the EU either but don't over the egg the pudding. There's good and bad things that come with being a member and the good bits FAR outweigh the bad.

We didn't join the EU , we joined the Common Market and a trade only relationship is what Brexit is fighting for again. Why do you not want that to succeed?

People are not benefiting when cheap labour minus terms and conditions can flood the labour market.  Although I accept that EU migrants are a net contributor to the economy , they drive down pay and conditions in the labour market and put pressure on services due to the unplanned nature of free movement.  People vote on the basis of their personal experience. You can argue that in a national sense the EU benefits outweigh the negatives but if that isn't impacting positively enough on the daily lives of people and you don't address that.......you get Brexit.

Politics is supposed to be about people and politicians stopped representing the people and started representing the needs and wants of a pernicious , overbearing political construct based a thousand miles away that was run by smug, unelected bureaucrats that had no interest in them or their lives.

The EU lost touch.

[McSpreader]

7 hours ago, Cerberus said:

I can just see some plummy accented Tories wright out workers and environmental rights now-
A limit of 35 hour week? Nah.
Paid holidays? Nah.
Health and Safety? Nah.
Maternity Leave? Nah.
Equality? Nah.
 

Unrestricted Fracking. Great.
Weird imported vegetables from China grown in heavily polluted ground. Great.

Great theoretically but most of that only applies if you work for the State in some capacity. For the majority of workers that work in private industry on temporary or zero hours contracts or are self employed all that you mention is far from reality.

Also, none of those employment benefits needs the EU to exist as all are enshrined in UK law and will continue post Brexit.