dd23 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Spuddy in your last two posts you summed up exactly my thoughts and entertained me more than DFC have so far this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd23 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 It's a sore one however when your choices are based on the fear that the alternative will be even more pish, although how much more pish than ten winless six defeats in a row no goals and a team that looks like it'd get pumped by Whitfield over 50s can it get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 It's a sore one however when your choices are based on the fear that the alternative will be even more pish, although how much more pish than ten winless six defeats in a row no goals and a team that looks like it'd get pumped by Whitfield over 50s can it get? I think we all feel the same. On paper, to an outsider it looks like he's earned more time, however we who have watched the team over 3 years have got some fairly serious concerns. 1) Failure to build a half solid defence. 2) Obsession with players who are 'projects'. Injury prone, bad attitude, total unknowns, police batterers. 3) Hatred of playing with any width. 4) Enormous turn over in players with therefore no continuity. 5) Signs players who are very similar. Big bombscare CH's, wee square passing midfielders, wee half winger/half strikers. Give him 3 more games and if no sign of improvement then bullet him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd23 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 The width thing baffles me, one of the best Hartley performances was when we murdered Celtic one all at Dens at the start of last season. Roberts took the pish and then Boyle took over when he was fecked. If Gordon hadn't been on it that day they'd have got a doing. Now as far as opposition managers go they don't have to defend the rectangle between the penalty box, goal line and touch line because we never go there. Hayes doesn't get in the Aberdeen team because he's offering nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 How can you murder a team 1-1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 If we sacked every manager when they went 8 or 9 games without a win,we would be changing them at least every year. I'm sure Hartley would have went 2 seasons ago on that basis.Looking at the alternatives, there is not a name who I would say ,yes he'll do a better job.I think Hartley deserves at least until the winter break. Yes the quality of football and results are poor,but i've seen far worse, what's the worst that can happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srw Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Dundees bad run of form has lasted all of 2016, Dundees fcking awful run of form has last the last 10 league games. This isnt a blip, this isnt an OTT reaction, almost everything one can look at for a football manager is less than satisfactory, Transfers, Tactics, Squad Strength, Squad Balance, Perception, Form, Entertainment, Attitude, everything is poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cilitbang Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Where has Hartley taken Dundee from? Did he join in 1st division till now? This is really his 1st quite bad patch, he's earned time to turn it around imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dd23 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 How can you murder a team 1-1? In the same way as Sutton correctly described our defeat to Celtic recently as "a 1-0 hammering." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 53 minutes ago, srw said: Dundees bad run of form has lasted all of 2016, Dundees fcking awful run of form has last the last 10 league games. This isnt a blip, this isnt an OTT reaction, almost everything one can look at for a football manager is less than satisfactory, Transfers, Tactics, Squad Strength, Squad Balance, Perception, Form, Entertainment, Attitude, everything is poor. Who would you get in as a replacement, srw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 7 minutes ago, Dee Man said: Who would you get in as a replacement, srw? He never answers that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ya Bezzer! Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 53 minutes ago, jakedee said: If we sacked every manager when they went 8 or 9 games without a win,we would be changing them at least every year. I'm sure Hartley would have went 2 seasons ago on that basis.Looking at the alternatives, there is not a name who I would say ,yes he'll do a better job.I think Hartley deserves at least until the winter break. Yes the quality of football and results are poor,but i've seen far worse, what's the worst that can happen? No Premiership team lost 6 in a row last season. Dundee have in the first 10 games. It's pretty dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 45 minutes ago, jakedee said: If we sacked every manager when they went 8 or 9 games without a win,we would be changing them at least every year. I'm sure Hartley would have went 2 seasons ago on that basis.Looking at the alternatives, there is not a name who I would say ,yes he'll do a better job.I think Hartley deserves at least until the winter break. Yes the quality of football and results are poor,but i've seen far worse, what's the worst that can happen? There is a fair point in Hartley's defence there that you've had runs of 7 without a win and 8 without a win in the previous two seasons and ended up fine, but you were bottom of the league in neither of those scenarios and you didn't lose six in a row. You're 10 games without a win now, not 8. Most clubs rarely go on runs like that every season, so most clubs wouldn't be sacking their manager every season; that Hartley is taking you on a run like that every season isn't much of a defence of him. To compare to other clubs who've regularly been at the bottom of the table, Hamilton went on a run of 13 without a win when Canning first took over - since that the worst run they've had is 7 without a win with the most consecutive defeats being 4. Kilmarnock had 7 without a win twice under Johnston, once under Locke and have had 6 without a win under Clark, but never 10 without a win and never more than 4 consecutive defeats. A run of 10 games without a win incorporating 6 defeats in a row is not a routine occurrence which would see clubs looking for a new manager every six months if they sacked the incumbent every time it happened. It's a rare occurrence which only happens when a team is exceptionally bad and/or a manager is doing an exceptionally bad job. That doesn't necessarily mean Hartley won't turn it round if given more time, but it would hardly be a knee-jerk reaction to a routine blip if he was sacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srw Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 22 minutes ago, Dee Man said: Who would you get in as a replacement, srw? I dont know who would be interested, so its a difficult question to answer. Im not exactly a fan of Hughes, or the others who would probably appear at the bookies as favourites. For me, this question is irrelevant as to deciding whether Hartley remains. Would another manager be able to get more out of the players, be able to motivate them more, be able to organise them better, I think, based on facts, numbers and evidence that the answer is absolutely yes, and on that basis, I would change the manager. Hartleys backers sound like a beat up wife, just accepting what they get, scared to change because they have been downtrodden into thinking this is the best they can get, that they deserve this. We can only evaluate based on what has happened before, and as much as Hartleys backers can hope, pray, cross fingers etc, things look absolutely dire for us. 14 minutes ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said: He never answers that question. Which I have explained several times. Lets sack the failure, see who applies, then the board can appoint who they think is the man to change things, or we can just continue with defeat after defeat and hope Hartley somehow turns it round. Lets see what happens today, another defeat will be a catastrophe, and another nail in our coffin. I hope we turn this round, but I dont have blind faith like some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 A Dundee win today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Motherwell,Ross County,Hamilton and Partick Thisle have all had similar (ok not quite as bad)runs of form in recent years and kept their manager.The DAB's and Hibs have changed their manager after a poor run.I will give Hartley until at least January before I turn on him.That may or may not be too late,but, it's not as if we've never been relegated before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbycoxblue Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 Which I have explained several times. Lets sack the failure, see who applies, then the board can appoint who they think is the man to change things, or we can just continue with defeat after defeat and hope Hartley somehow turns it round. Lets see what happens today, another defeat will be a catastrophe, and another nail in our coffin. I hope we turn this round, but I dont have blind faith like some. Well if anyone would know what a beat up wife sounds like it would be you .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Litt Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 4 hours ago, The Grass Is Greener. said: A Dundee win today. Some boy TGIG. Good stuff seeing the squirrel doing well today too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grass Is Greener. Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 57 minutes ago, Louis Litt said: Some boy TGIG. Good stuff seeing the squirrel doing well today too. Was never in doubt, lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifespud Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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