welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 minute ago, dorlomin said: What the f**k are "centrally imposed geographical boundaries.". Central government raises a mountain range? Builds a river? No, a civil servant is shipped out to India to draw lines around Kashmir, a place he's never been to. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) There were far fewer and less devastating conflicts in the Near and Middle east and North Africa under Ottoman rule before the Nation State building French, British and Americans got involved. South Eastern Europe might disagree but they got hammered in the 20th Century anyway. Edited July 4, 2020 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, welshbairn said: No, a civil servant is shipped out to India to draw lines around Kashmir, a place he's never been to. What was that saying? “Let’s draw a line from the M of Mosul...”? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: No, a civil servant is shipped out to India to draw lines around Kashmir, a place he's never been to. https://www.google.com/search?q="centrally+imposed+geographical+boundaries."&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB907GB907&oq="centrally+imposed+geographical+boundaries."&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Quote No results found for "centrally imposed geographical boundaries.". This is going to go nowhere in spectacular style. You have a bunch of lazy assumptions about the people of the Middle East and their lives in a swampy fog lacking in detail or anything concrete but absolutely sure of the moral righteousness of the assumption. They cannot articulate it in a clear, easy to understand manner. They cannot give good examples and alternatives. The lives of most people in the Middle East are immeasurably better than they were a few decades ago. There are glaring exceptions. But health, education, income and other indicies are generally improving. They are not improving anywhere near as quickly as they had in the developed world but that is down to poor governments, weak institutions, corruption and the other problems that plague many developing economies. The idea that the "nation state" is the problem and some fantasy system of government is sitting around untried is shite. The people in the region who want to end the nation state? ISIS and others planning pan national caliphates and the like. And I think arguing with climate change deniers is hard work. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: There were far fewer and less devastating conflicts in the Near and Middle east and North Africa under Ottoman rule Really. This from your extensive knowledge of the two words "Ottoman" and "rule"? Can you name one major internal revolt in the era? Can you explain why you think Ottoman rule with its widespread use of slaves was better than today? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, dorlomin said: https://www.google.com/search?q="centrally+imposed+geographical+boundaries."&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBGB907GB907&oq="centrally+imposed+geographical+boundaries."&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 This is going to go nowhere in spectacular style. You have a bunch of lazy assumptions about the people of the Middle East and their lives in a swampy fog lacking in detail or anything concrete but absolutely sure of the moral righteousness of the assumption. They cannot articulate it in a clear, easy to understand manner. They cannot give good examples and alternatives. The lives of most people in the Middle East are immeasurably better than they were a few decades ago. There are glaring exceptions. But health, education, income and other indicies are generally improving. They are not improving anywhere near as quickly as they had in the developed world but that is down to poor governments, weak institutions, corruption and the other problems that plague many developing economies. The idea that the "nation state" is the problem and some fantasy system of government is sitting around untried is shite. The people in the region who want to end the nation state? ISIS and others planning pan national caliphates and the like. And I think arguing with climate change deniers is hard work. Do you think the people of Kashmir are responsible for three nuclear Nation States fighting over their territory at the moment? Or that they might just have got along without these artificial lines being drawn in a library in Delhi? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Do you think the people of Kashmir are responsible for three nuclear Nation States fighting over their territory at the moment? Or that they might just have got along without these artificial lines being drawn in a library in Delhi? You picked the wrong state there, bud. Kashmir is in India because of the maharajah of Kashmir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Can you name one major internal revolt in the era? No, that's my point. I'm sure there were many, but nowhere near as devastating as those unleashed with the introduction of arbitrarily drawn maps and power granted to favoured families of the imperial European powers. Edited July 4, 2020 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 2 hours ago, dorlomin said: 32 millions of human beings. Dunno why but this phrasing has done me in. Birthday card pish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, welshbairn said: No, that's my point. I'm sure there were many, but nowhere near as devastating as those unleashed with the introduction of arbitrarily drawn maps and power granted to favoured families of the imperial European powers. But the deadliest war in the modern middle east is the Iran Iraq war largely fought over the borders where the Persian and Ottoman empires met. There is nothing to argue here. You are just shouting empty, made up "facts" in an attempt to defend a fleeting thought that passed through your mind. Most people in the middle east as healthier, have higher incomes and live much better lives than their great grand parents. People make dumb statements then thunderously hand wave to defend them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Anyone followed the Rogue Senior Advisor on twitter? Been posting since the election some seemingly interesting insider info from the White House. Been hyping up an identity reveal all week then came out with this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 42 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: I don't mean to rain on your parade but eh Armenian genocide Thought that was down to Ataturk and his young Turks, rather than the Ottoman Empire proper. Trying to impress his European mates. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Capital Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, paul-r-cfc said: Anyone followed the Rogue Senior Advisor on twitter? Been posting since the election some seemingly interesting insider info from the White House. Been hyping up an identity reveal all week then came out with this. I've been following that account for a while. All very good at suspense, but I think we've been played. Edited July 4, 2020 by Highland Capital 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, MixuFruit said: No I think it was around the time of WWI, I think Ataturk got into power in the 20s. Fair enough. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 I've been following that account for a while. All very good at suspense, but I think we've been played.Yeah, disappointing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Ataturk didn't instigate the genocide but he did exercise a lot of violence against the Armenians, Greeks and Kurds when he had the chance. I think that's maybe less about arbitrarily defined borders and more that nationalism that all you empty headed Yessers are big fans of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Ataturk didn't instigate the genocide but he did exercise a lot of violence against the Armenians, Greeks and Kurds when he had the chance. I think that's maybe less about arbitrarily defined borders and more that nationalism that all you empty headed Yessers are big fans of. It helps when we have mutually accepted geographical borders going back centuries though. Hope we we don't blow it all with the Galloway v Cumbria pub opening issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Capital Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 4 hours ago, paul-r-cfc said: 4 hours ago, Highland Capital said: I've been following that account for a while. All very good at suspense, but I think we've been played. Yeah, disappointing. I see the Twitter account has switched from Rogue WH Insider to "Jimmy Trump" to "Bob Gibbon". Don't know who Bob Gibbon is but it turns out the serial number of the James Maxwell Trump birth certificate is one of someone who was trafficked as a child but that might be a coincidence. Saw an interesting theory that there's more to the James Maxwell Trump name than just a bit of attention seeking - Trump and Maxwell are self-explanatory but the James may refer to St James Island - an island previously owned by Epstein. Again, could be a coincidence but intriguing nonetheless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeWhoWalksBehindTheRows Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 On 02/07/2020 at 15:33, RiG said: These shirts Spread winged eagle, on top a ball hmmmmm would make a good football club Crest..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 I see the Twitter account has switched from Rogue WH Insider to "Jimmy Trump" to "Bob Gibbon". Don't know who Bob Gibbon is but it turns out the serial number of the James Maxwell Trump birth certificate is one of someone who was trafficked as a child but that might be a coincidence. Saw an interesting theory that there's more to the James Maxwell Trump name than just a bit of attention seeking - Trump and Maxwell are self-explanatory but the James may refer to St James Island - an island previously owned by Epstein. Again, could be a coincidence but intriguing nonetheless.He has now posted this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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