Juniors in the big Scottish do we deserve to be there?

[Talbot Bing]

Why on gods earth would the Sfa give money to junior teams who have absolutely no interest in attaining the standards? You'd take that money and piss it up against the wall on more players rather than ground improvements.

This is obviously a response from a 10 year old child.

No idea where he gets his answer just as long spouting off his "rhetoric [emoji90]" comes across as knowledgeable.

[emoji23][emoji85]

[Talbot Bing]

Whit? Fella, I am very far away from LL teams, not least geographically. I don't know who you think I am but you're wrong. And I was going to PM you to put you right but after telling me to calm down, you can forget that!

I'm open to the Juniors, and none more so than Talbot, progressing from a grade which they have outgrown. I've argued that the LL hasn't been a disaster as some have said here. That's it really.

Calm down dear it's only an opinion. [emoji23]

Ps. Still awaiting this much anticipated PM now [emoji6]

[jimbaxters]

You'll be waiting a long time. You're no gettin' it!

[fan of the juniors]

Thanks for the replies folks. The point I'm trying to make is that if clubs like ourselves had this guaranteed income year in year out then we would improve facilities .
At this time every penny is a prisoner & your probably right in saying that we should put some of it aside towards things like floodlights but then we end up losing out on players due to other clubs being able to pay more . If we had let's say £30k at the start of every season then that or a good part of it would go towards facilities .
Last season we got our 2 stands completely refurbished . This season around £6k was spent on improving the pitch . All which came out of our budget . And the vast majority of forward thinking junior sides are in the same boat

[LeeKRR1878]

Thanks for the replies folks. The point I'm trying to make is that if clubs like ourselves had this guaranteed income year in year out then we would improve facilities .
At this time every penny is a prisoner & your probably right in saying that we should put some of it aside towards things like floodlights but then we end up losing out on players due to other clubs being able to pay more . If we had let's say £30k at the start of every season then that or a good part of it would go towards facilities .
Last season we got our 2 stands completely refurbished . This season around £6k was spent on improving the pitch . All which came out of our budget . And the vast majority of forward thinking junior sides are in the same boat

KRR had started to bank money from around 2003 maybe slightly before that for a new ground. The car park and social club were sold for £1M I think. The money was put aside into a separate account but managers would then tap into it to buy players and pay high wages for players and in the end up this money was soon away. But as the years went on more sense came about and more banking was done and with the final sale of Adamslie helped us fund part of the new ground. This is why we have the smallest budget in the premier league and I'd say we're doing pretty damn well if you look at the league.

We've rebuilt our whole team from when Stewart Maxwell took over with signing a lot of ex 21s, took a relegation via a play off and kept building a decent squad without spending near what we used to

[cmontheloknow]

7 hours ago, Sunrise said:

Considering there is next to no prize money in junior football though - the Junior Cup winners get £12000 - the financial gap with the juniors is startling.

Our income from last season is a fraction of Clyde's - that £80000+ from the SFA would sustain almost all Junior sides... with more than a bit to spare.

£12k? has it gone up?

It was: 3k to each semi finalist and £8k to each finalist.

That is the entirety of the prize money in Junior football afaik. There used to be about £3k to the winners of the West Super but not sure if that is in place anymore.

[Toby]

Don't know if it's been suggested, but since this thread was initially about the merits of Junior teams entering the Senior Cup, what about putting the shoe on the other foot?

How would the Juniors feel about the Highland, Lowland, East and South of Scotland and North Caledonian teams entering the Junior Cup, and it becoming an all encompassing non league tournament like the FA Trophy in England?

[KarlMarx]

2 minutes ago, Toby said:

Don't know if it's been suggested, but since this thread was initially about the merits of Junior teams entering the Senior Cup, what about putting the shoe on the other foot?

How would the Juniors feel about the Highland, Lowland, East and South of Scotland and North Caledonian teams entering the Junior Cup, and it becoming an all encompassing non league tournament like the FA Trophy in England?

Personally I think it's an excellent idea.

It would raise the profile of the trophy and winner would have beaten good quality non league teams to win.

[The Mantis]

12 minutes ago, Toby said:

Don't know if it's been suggested, but since this thread was initially about the merits of Junior teams entering the Senior Cup, what about putting the shoe on the other foot?

How would the Juniors feel about the Highland, Lowland, East and South of Scotland and North Caledonian teams entering the Junior Cup, and it becoming an all encompassing non league tournament like the FA Trophy in England?

Personally I like the idea but I think it's already been shown to be very difficult due to the fact that LL and HL already have a fixture list of 30/34 which the juniors don't. Floodlights would be needed to complete the season. HibeeJibee will no doubt provide a more detailed answer. 

[The Mantis]

45 minutes ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

 

KRR had started to bank money from around 2003 maybe slightly before that for a new ground. The car park and social club were sold for £1M I think. The money was put aside into a separate account but managers would then tap into it to buy players and pay high wages for players and in the end up this money was soon away. But as the years went on more sense came about and more banking was done and with the final sale of Adamslie helped us fund part of the new ground. This is why we have the smallest budget in the premier league and I'd say we're doing pretty damn well if you look at the league.
 

 

This is quite astonishing. Sums it up really 

[LeeKRR1878]

This is quite astonishing. Sums it up really 

I'm sure senior clubs have done things very similar anyway

[fueradejuego]

17 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

Of course they don't want to, that's why the decision shouldn't be there's to make. If it can be shown that the lower levels of the league system would benefit from some form or regionalisation and integration with the best of non-league, then it should be done.

 

Adapt in what way? I think what a few posters recognise is that the LL is flawed, and until that is addressed, they are better served remaining exactly where the are.

Adapt in the sense of maybe undertaking some improvements to their facilities. Maybe introduce a minimum standard. You wouldn't need to be licensed like a LL club but having toilets as opposed to telling paying customers to pish behind a wall would be a positive step forward.

I appreciate that there are a number of forward thinking junior clubs who are making really good progress on areas such as this.

11 hours ago, Isabel Goudie said:

I was pointing out the argument about superior facility's in the LL is fundamentally flawed and illustrates an imbalance rather than an advantage. The three examples I used the clubs don't even have their own grounds. Colts rent out Broadwood, Clyde couldn't afford the rent, Colts have next to no support but rent a 8000 seater stadium, who is subsidising that and how long for? Why did Clyde not get subsidised? It seems to me that the LL clubs are getting help from somewhere, you can't sustain leasing a stadium that size on crowd of 50 odd. However, the SFA were happy to accelerate the conception of bottom rung pyramid clubs out of boys teams to fill the division. I suppose there would need to be a safety net, I'm not sure how that functions but I'm sure it exists because the sums don't add up. Somewhere something is going to give because it has been fabricated in order to tick the pyramid box. It is ill conceived and will, IMHO, come unstuck when the subsidy/safety net disappears.

Why is owning the ground an issue? Why are some still fixated with this notion of owning a ground? Its not an issue if you have a suitable lease arrangement in place.

The relationship between Clyde and NLC breaks down and perhaps the Colts saw an opportunity to negotiate a new lease arrangement with a landlord who requires a tenant. The Colts negotiate a good arrangement.

That's a rather obvious scenario. Surely you can see that's entirely possible?

You cannot understand the business plan behind some LL clubs so therefore you cast aspersions that something isn't right. That somehow, and even you don't know how, the SFA are propping up these clubs financially via the magical "subsidy".

What is this subsidy? Is it the same subsidy that Talbot receive for participation in the Scottish Cup?

 

[The Mantis]

10 minutes ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

 

I'm sure senior clubs have done things very similar anyway

 

Yeah there must be loads of clubs who had a capital sum equivalent to about 10 years running costs. 

[LeeKRR1878]

Yeah there must be loads of clubs who had a capital sum equivalent to about 10 years running costs. 

Probably. Isn't like that now though. We now have the smallest budget in the Premier League, we currently sit top, we have already won a cup this season, we're living within our means with a fairly young squad. Good time to be a Rabs fan just now

[The Moonster]

I got to page 5 and I can't be arsed reading the rest. Talbot fans saying they've got a better set up, more fans and a better team than senior sides but don't want to join the pyramid because "it doesn't quite suit them" is hilarious. If your team and club structure is so great, enter the pyramid, pump every team silly, make your way up the senior leagues and prove it. You say you've got a big crowd that puts seniors to shame, why would this big crowd stop coming if you went to the lowland/highland league?

You moan about having to travel long distances, fucking boohoo, there are Sunday league teams that manage to travel the width of the country every week, I'm sure your big fan base will cover the cost of a minibus. Oh aye, and there are currently teams who you say have no fans managing to do it no problem right now in the Lowland League.

The fact is you have a route into the senior leagues and you'll find any excuse not to join it because you love being the big boys in the juniors. No amount of the crying going on in this thread will change my view that the juniors are, on the whole, a bunch of shitebags. 

Happy enough to coin in the money in the Scottish cup though, I suppose that suits you a bit better.

[LeeKRR1878]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13109216.display/ old article but worth a read

[Talbot Bing]

You'll be waiting a long time. You're no gettin' it!

Shocker [emoji23][emoji23]

[Talbot Bing]

I got to page 5 and I can't be arsed reading the rest. Talbot fans saying they've got a better set up, more fans and a better team than senior sides but don't want to join the pyramid because "it doesn't quite suit them" is hilarious. If your team and club structure is so great, enter the pyramid, pump every team silly, make your way up the senior leagues and prove it. You say you've got a big crowd that puts seniors to shame, why would this big crowd stop coming if you went to the lowland/highland league?

You moan about having to travel long distances, fucking boohoo, there are Sunday league teams that manage to travel the width of the country every week, I'm sure your big fan base will cover the cost of a minibus. Oh aye, and there are currently teams who you say have no fans managing to do it no problem right now in the Lowland League.

The fact is you have a route into the senior leagues and you'll find any excuse not to join it because you love being the big boys in the juniors. No amount of the crying going on in this thread will change my view that the juniors are, on the whole, a bunch of shitebags. 

Happy enough to coin in the money in the Scottish cup though, I suppose that suits you a bit better.

You're name is apt as that is where you are you absolute rocket!

[The Moonster]

3 minutes ago, Talbot Bing said:

 

You're name is apt as that is where you are you absolute rocket!

 

My name is actually in reference to someone who achieved something in the senior leagues, something we can't say for your shitebag club. Feel free to argue against any of the points I've made, or carry on with shite personal comebacks, whichever suits you best (I know you only like things that suit you).

[The Moonster]

17 minutes ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/13109216.display/ old article but worth a read

"Our football is cheap"

"The teams we will play aren't very good and don't have any fans"

"We have to travel a bit further"

"Our stadiums are too pish"

All terrible reasons for not joining the professional set up. The first one of cheapness, this is basically the reason you get the attendances you get now, if prices rise then your fans disappear, punching a hole in your "big fanbase" shouts. If the teams in the Lowland league are pish, you'll jave no problem winning the league and moving into League 2. Travel as I've said isn't a big issue, it's a flimsy excuse. Your grounds need to come up to a standard to be able to play in the dark at League 2 level, it's not asking a lot.