Juniors in the big Scottish do we deserve to be there?

[newcastle broon]

3 minutes ago, fan of the juniors said:

 

Teams up here would be with a certain Highland league club derided when they stated the fact . Personally I want my club to play at the highest level we can which at the moment we are . If another avenue opens ie a new fangled pyramid which wasn't a closed shop self preservation society that it is just now then I would hope we would have the foresight to be leading the queue for that as well . Improvements are getting made at our ground all the time .

 

It would be interesting for sure.

That's yourselves Clydebank and one of the Irvine teams I've read about on here as showing an interest in the past few days albeit yous aren't spokes persons for your clubs (I don't think anyway). 

It could well be a case of one club making the break and others following. 

The divide between the associations might not be as great as some are saying  ? 

[fan of the juniors]

It would be interesting for sure.

That's yourselves Clydebank and one of the Irvine teams I've read about on here as showing an interest in the past few days albeit yous aren't spokes persons for your clubs (I don't think anyway). 

It could well be a case of one club making the break and others following. 

The divide between the associations might not be as great as some are saying  ? 

No I'm just a fan of the club bud & there are fans who think the polar opposite from me

[newcastle broon]

7 minutes ago, fan of the juniors said:

 

No I'm just a fan of the club bud & there are fans who think the polar opposite from me

 

Aye agreed they're the ones that would need the convincing. 

I suppose the ongoing debates will go on for years to come unfortunately. 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, The Mantis said:

Fair enough ISA, these clubs are in the West and the ones you take most interest in. Clubs like mine (Whitehill) exist in a mining area just like yours. We exist off the bar income etc and we own the ground. We've had these discussions before so I know you haven't been through this way at a game. Our crowds are 120-150 and Bonnyrigg is about a mile down the road and they get about double that.

Anyway the point is there's 16 clubs in the league, not just these fake ones as you would see it. You're right about the Colts, they seem to have no supporters on here who can answer your questions. My guess is, they have so many laddies under their system that pay every week, that they have plenty money. Same goes for BSC and EK. If you're looking for some conspiracy that they get bankrolled by the LL or the SFA then sorry, it doesn't happen. AFAIK licensed clubs get £4000 at xmas, at least they did last year. We get the same money for being in the Scottish as you do. So stop tarring the lot of us with the same brush.

No gripe with your club Mantis, it's the division that they play in and the fact that it has been constructed in such a hurried forced fashion that they had to create clubs out of boys football to pay lip service to a pyramid system. The non league set up as I proposed would have had a welcome place for your club and all other established already. Yes new clubs can be conceived and born, but not like that. It smacked of stitch up and, as I said, ill conceived! Your club, and mine, could have been in a better and more genuine set up. I hope that some day, someone with influence sees sense. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Hertha/BJFC1938 said:

Good post mate , sadly thats the way of it on here with the Talbot mob , you try and debate with them and It turns into 10 year old patter and pathetic name calling, they can't form any debate whatsoever without turning everything into petty insults. 

When Have I ever done that Hertha?

[CityDave]

Just a few things to mention.

Is this the final season for the Juniors in the Scottish Cup or will they be invited in future seasons?

I see the bottom of the LL there is a relegation spot currently held by Preston Ath who would go down to the EOSL and a winner of a play off would take their place, does this mean that the LL is not the lowest level on the pyramid as this belongs to both EOSL and the SOSL?

And if so any new team joining would now be required to enter either of these two leagues or would they be fast tracked into the LL if they ticked all the boxes regarding ground criteria?, this with the top Junior clubs in mind?

The lack of a relegation spot in the Highland League has historically not prevented clubs moving from Junior football into that league. Pretending there is a closed shop and a bias against Junior clubs from the SFA??? is just making excuses for no real reason and with no evidence to back it up.(the SFA has very little to do with it, the league and its members make the decisions on who is allowed to join) Everyone seems quite happy with the Juniors playing in the Scottish Cup and long may it continue, they bring a lot to that competition. If Junior clubs and their supporters are quite happy to remain where they are then that is fine, but I'm sure the door is and has been wide open for them if they wish to leave and join the pyramid set up.

[Hertha/BJFC1938]

3 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

When Have I ever done that Hertha?

In fairness you haven't and are a very good poster .  

[Burnie_man]

Just a quick one Dave, how do Banks O'Dee gain access to the Highland League? They are licenced and want to join.

[LeeKRR1878]

There's more than just the west junior league tho bud what aboot aw yer cups  ?

Ok well a handful of teams make it to the finals, but I'm sure if the juniors went into the preliminary rounds of the Scottish Cup then 1 or 2 of the minor tournaments could easily be disbanded. But the leagues finish roughly the same time as the senior leagues

[Sunrise]

20 minutes ago, CityDave said:

Just a few things to mention.

Is this the final season for the Juniors in the Scottish Cup or will they be invited in future seasons?

I see the bottom of the LL there is a relegation spot currently held by Preston Ath who would go down to the EOSL and a winner of a play off would take their place, does this mean that the LL is not the lowest level on the pyramid as this belongs to both EOSL and the SOSL?

And if so any new team joining would now be required to enter either of these two leagues or would they be fast tracked into the LL if they ticked all the boxes regarding ground criteria?, this with the top Junior clubs in mind?

The lack of a relegation spot in the Highland League has historically not prevented clubs moving from Junior football into that league. Pretending there is a closed shop and a bias against Junior clubs from the SFA??? is just making excuses for no real reason and with no evidence to back it up.(the SFA has very little to do with it, the league and its members make the decisions on who is allowed to join) Everyone seems quite happy with the Juniors playing in the Scottish Cup and long may it continue, they bring a lot to that competition. If Junior clubs and their supporters are quite happy to remain where they are then that is fine, but I'm sure the door is and has been wide open for them if they wish to leave and join the pyramid set up.

The EOS and SOS league winners are entitled to replace the LL bottom placed side should they be licenced, so these leagues are the lowest levels of the pyramid.

Last season Threave resigned their LL membership (not dissimilar to their leaving the EOS in 2004 for travelling reasons?) - though SOS winners St Cuthbert's Wanderers were unlicenced and were not promoted. In this case, the remaining spot - plus the spot from Threave's withdrawal - was/were filled by CSS and Hawick.

If you already know this - apologies. Just how I read your post/query.

Firstly, does any LL-er know as I cant see this anywhere - would a playoff occur between the two EOS/SOS league winners for a league spot should each be licenced, or would they just both replace the bottom two LL sides? 

Secondly, are Wigtown licenced? Edusport (third so far in the SOS) definitely are - of course whether Wigtown would accept promotion is another question (chatter on P&B indicated St Cuthbert's weren't keen on it last year). In the EOS - I don't believe Leith are or will be soon, though chatter on here seemed to indicate contenders LTHV were going for it.

 

8 hours ago, cmontheloknow said:

£12k? has it gone up?

It was: 3k to each semi finalist and £8k to each finalist.

That is the entirety of the prize money in Junior football afaik. There used to be about £3k to the winners of the West Super but not sure if that is in place anymore.

Aye, it went up last season. Considering the £8000 was unchanged from 1986...!

Perhaps a Talbot-er could tell us if the WOS win anything, because they've won the last four!

[The Mantis]

5 minutes ago, Sunrise said:

Firstly, does any LL-er know as I cant see this anywhere - would a playoff occur between the two EOS/SOS league winners for a league spot should each be licenced, or would they just both replace the bottom two LL sides? 

 

I can answer this bit. At the moment they play off for one spot. Winner gets in without playing the bottom club. This was negotiated between the EOS/SOS and the LL. These things evolve though. If these leagues were stronger things might change, same as if the LL got stronger there might be automatic promotion to the SPFL.

[Shanner]

Jings, what a kerfuffle. 

[itzdrk]

3 hours ago, Quantum Leap said:

 

I know your name and could point you out in an Ayr street full of tramps.
Are you still using the dates sites and your cream.?

 

Aye it must have been really hard to put itzdrk into google. Loads of folk on here know my name and have met me.  I'm not hiding behind a username 

You and Waffen are clearly made for the detective game.  

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Itzdrk

[LeeKRR1878]

I can answer this bit. At the moment they play off for one spot. Winner gets in without playing the bottom club. This was negotiated between the EOS/SOS and the LL. These things evolve though. If these leagues were stronger things might change, same as if the LL got stronger there might be automatic promotion to the SPFL.

surely it should work that way anyway? A bit unfair a team winning a division having to play a team finishing bottom of the above division to determine if they get promoted or not

[itzdrk]

5 hours ago, classof2010 said:

The beith v airdrie was a midweek afternoon as well

Never realised that (obviously). Good crowds for a weekday afternoon.  Obviously the Lochee and Beith giro can stretch a bit further. 

[CityDave]

12 minutes ago, Burnie_man said:

Just a quick one Dave, how do Banks O'Dee gain access to the Highland League? They are licenced and want to join.

Do they still want to join?  I'll ask next time I'm through or if I get a chance to speak to one of them when they play City. Same might be said for Culter. As I said there is no relegation and therefore no promotion and currently entry is down to a league members vote which last time former Juniors Formartine Utd, Strathspey Th and Turriff Utd were successful in making the step up. None of these clubs were among the top teams when they applied and all have made huge steps forward as football clubs since. Where as the HL is the Northern basement part of the pyramid, its not a bad record that league has over the years in accepting Juniors.

As for BoD HL football will happen, so be patient. Also its worth keeping an eye on the progress of Colony Park over the next few seasons they seem to have a very good set up and club structure.

 

[The Mantis]

3 minutes ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

 

surely it should work that way anyway? A bit unfair a team winning a division having to play a team finishing bottom of the above division to determine if they get promoted or not

 

Of course it should. I was just mentioning it as it's different from the present SPFL/LL situation. Also as I said, it's negotiated. The LL members voted for it. If the other leagues were strong enough they could both claim a place.

[Sunrise]

8 minutes ago, CityDave said:

Do they still want to join?  I'll ask next time I'm through or if I get a chance to speak to one of them when they play City. Same might be said for Culter. As I said there is no relegation and therefore no promotion and currently entry is down to a league members vote which last time former Juniors Formartine Utd, Strathspey Th and Turriff Utd were successful in making the step up. None of these clubs were among the top teams when they applied and all have made huge steps forward as football clubs since. Where as the HL is the Northern basement part of the pyramid, its not a bad record that league has over the years in accepting Juniors.

As for BoD HL football will happen, so be patient. Also its worth keeping an eye on the progress of Colony Park over the next few seasons they seem to have a very good set up and club structure.

 

I see they got over 1300 for a bottom-tier title decider last season - fecking hell, I'm nae crowd boaster but most juniors (even some seniors) would kill for that - obviously playing next to Inverurie Locos may help but shows there is potential for a strong outfit in the toon.

[Sunrise]

15 minutes ago, LeeKRR1878 said:

 

surely it should work that way anyway? A bit unfair a team winning a division having to play a team finishing bottom of the above division to determine if they get promoted or not

 

Not just a Scottish phenomenon - the much-praised German league system (which I try ma best to follow as you may be able to tell by ma avatar) features promotion playoffs between the five league winners + one runner-up at the fourth-tier level for promotion. 

[CityDave]

6 minutes ago, Sunrise said:

I see they got over 1300 for a bottom-tier title decider last season - fecking hell, I'm nae crowd boaster but most juniors (even some seniors) would kill for that - obviously playing next to Inverurie Locos may help but shows there is potential for a strong outfit in the toon.

They have a lot of involvement in youth football development in the town and I'm sure this helps and probably shows how a club can get community support behind a team on those occasions.

Who was it who began club football there as a youngster before being snapped up by Rangers, Barry Robson I think?