Dunning1874 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On Stenny, it's great news for the moment but like others I'm concerned about the long term if they are 'broadly in favour of the idea'. If appreciate that if the per game bribe was to be increased to, for example, a six-figure sum then that's a significant amount of money for a club which is hard to turn down, but personally I don't think there should be red lines being drawn on what League Two clubs want out of a negotiation to allow Colt Teams in; Colt Teams are the red line. There are no circumstances in which their entry to the SPFL is acceptable and any conversation about league reconstruction should only be allowed to proceed with that option explicitly ruled out from the start. If Colt teams in the league are part of the discussion, the discussion shouldn't even begin. With comments from clubs expressing their opposition to the current plan such as 'broadly in favour', it's increases the concern that this is just the initial attempt to test the water and after it fails we'll be back here again within the next couple of years, with a proposal that's far harder for clubs to turn down but will nevertheless have the same end result of destroying lower league football in this country. @Francesc Fabregas I appreciate that the main reaction would have been relief that Stenhousemuir will be opposing the current proposal, but did any fans press the board on why they're broadly in favour of the concept and what changes would be required to the plans as they stand to make them support it? 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I was also at the Stenny meeting last night and the director said they were broadly in favour of "B" or Colt teams but not in the 2nd Division. They thought, like most people do that there should be a reserve league ( not a development league) . They spent the first half of the meeting ripping the plan to shreds and then listened to us do the same. Not sure if this has been mentioned or not but the club said that they had noticed that no where in the proposal does it say that the Colt team players have to be able to represent Scotland. We all thought that the whole point was that was to help develop home grown talent. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 I wonder how Wastedwillie would feel if Celtic were made to play in the UCL qualifiers by Real Madrid B or Barcelona B teams........all in the name of youth development! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 56 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said: CC really has wooshed the idiot faction 32 minutes ago, Blue Brazil Forever said: Another thicko. Really wound you up Are you trying to argue that a Cowdenbeath director has come on here for the sole reason of winding up strangers over a very delicate issue, rather than putting across his actual view which agrees with the majority? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loonytoons Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 On Stenny, it's great news for the moment but like others I'm concerned about the long term if they are 'broadly in favour of the idea'. If appreciate that if the per game bribe was to be increased to, for example, a six-figure sum then that's a significant amount of money for a club which is hard to turn down, but personally I don't think there should be red lines being drawn on what League Two clubs want out of a negotiation to allow Colt Teams in; Colt Teams are the red line. There are no circumstances in which their entry to the SPFL is acceptable and any conversation about league reconstruction should only be allowed to proceed with that option explicitly ruled out from the start. If Colt teams in the league are part of the discussion, the discussion shouldn't even begin. With comments from clubs expressing their opposition to the current plan such as 'broadly in favour', it's increases the concern that this is just the initial attempt to test the water and after it fails we'll be back here again within the next couple of years, with a proposal that's far harder for clubs to turn down but will nevertheless have the same end result of destroying lower league football in this country. [mention=3060]Francesc Fabregas[/mention] I appreciate that the main reaction would have been relief that Stenhousemuir will be opposing the current proposal, but did any fans press the board on why they're broadly in favour of the concept and what changes would be required to the plans as they stand to make them support it? This, I suspect, is exactly what is going on. Testing the water to see what is the absolute minimum they have give to bribe the lower league teams whilst shafting them over.This initial proposal was never going to fly but the foot is somewhat in the door now, with some of the teams making, however remote, noises of agreement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waldo Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Just one more thing from last nights meeting, The director said the Rangers rep , Craig Mulholland said, without being prompted or questioned that this proposal " wasn't a way to keep Rangers and Celtic teams in the Scottish League if they eventually move to England" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjc Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Player development comes down to the following: Clubs scouting the right types of players in terms of their technique, physicality (less so nowadays) and mentality. Clubs providing the right type of coaching. Both individual and as a team in terms of technique, tactical, physique and mental. This also means not having too many youth players on the books! Providing a Reserve League team as a gateway to the 1st team in order to play with and against better, more experienced players. This is where they learn the tricks of the trade so to speak. A manager (and the home fans) willing to give them a chance in the 1st team whilst realising that they aren't the finished article (very few are Messi, Giggs or Maldini types!) with an understanding of when they might need taking back out for their own good. Clubs having smaller 1st team squads would help (particularly Celtic) as any youth player currently finds 20-25 experienced full internationals blocking their gateway to the 1st team......It's the same with the top EPL Clubs down South. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, Waldo said: Just one more thing from last nights meeting, The director said the Rangers rep , Craig Mulholland said, without being prompted or questioned that this proposal " wasn't a way to keep Rangers and Celtic teams in the Scottish League if they eventually move to England" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well, thank God we got that issue sorted out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient Warrior Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 At the meeting last night it was made clear by the board that they were unanimously against the current proposal but were broadly in favour of change which would better the game in Scotland. This did not mean allowing any one club to have more than one team in the league set up. It was suggested that one way of making the game better would be to reform the current loan system so that more players were available to lower league sides and that development loans were scrapped. Currently lending clubs can insist on their players playing for their development sides even if the clubs they are on loan to have a game the same day. It also appears that some of the bigger club's financial demands make it unrealistic for the smaller clubs to take players on loan. The meeting was also told that nine of the League 2 clubs are against the proposal and the other unknown club was on the swither. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonglum25 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 As stated above our Board stated that they were in favour of change to better the game but did not state that it had to be Colts or B teams. One of our directors had obviously spent time researching the proposal andwhen he dissected it basically a lot of what is written in it is a load of bull. It was also mentioned that we would stil be against the proposal had it been, Hibs, Hearts or Aberdeen who had put the proposal forward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 8 minutes ago, Ancient Warrior said: It was suggested that one way of making the game better would be to reform the current loan system so that more players were available to lower league sides and that development loans were scrapped. Currently lending clubs can insist on their players playing for their development sides even if the clubs they are on loan to have a game the same day. It also appears that some of the bigger club's financial demands make it unrealistic for the smaller clubs to take players on loan. I'm not so keen on that either. Football's already gone too far down the road of having a huge number of players signed up to the biggest teams, with the minnows paying to subsidise their wages and development, while receiving nothing back in potential transfer fees. Sounds to me like that would just lead to the smaller clubs being used as colt/B teams via the back door. If there was a genuine desire at the top of the game to improve player development, they could limit the size of everybody's player pool and allow the excess youngsters to join other sides. I'd quite like to see the response to that being raised, actually 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 Colt teams are between the ages of 17-21,for me if B team or reserve teams was an option i would not be in favour of that in the lower leagues. eg. if Stuart Armstrong is coming back from injury and is allow to play in the colt team taking the place of the development player it defeats the purpose. also last night Mark hill is on loan to st mirren,Ross doohan on loan to st mirren and regan hendry on loan to raith rov. all played against st johnstone U20's in the cup with Celtic 's U20's 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said: last night Mark hill is on loan to st mirren,Ross doohan on loan to st mirren and regan hendry on loan to raith rov. all played against st johnstone U20's in the cup with Celtic 's U20's Gaining first team experience and still maintaining full time training under the watchful eye of their employer? What a fantastic system we have. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazil85 Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 13 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said: So you guys are more inclined to accept a B team rather than a colt team? Who has said that? They are the exact same thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Bazil85 said: Who has said that? They are the exact same thing. No they're not, 10 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: eg. if Stuart Armstrong is coming back from injury and is allow to play in the colt team taking the place of the development player it defeats the purpose. this would happen i'm against that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Brazil Forever Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 hour ago, The Moonster said: Are you trying to argue that a Cowdenbeath director has come on here for the sole reason of winding up strangers over a very delicate issue, rather than putting across his actual view which agrees with the majority? No. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, Blue Brazil Forever said: No. The f**k you on about then? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 16 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Gaining first team experience and still maintaining full time training under the watchful eye of their employer? What a fantastic system we have. You seem to think i'm against this great system i'm not,having this system and the colt teams in league 2 is better. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said: You seem to think i'm against this great system i'm not,having this system and the colt teams in league 2 is better. I'm not going round in circles with you again, it's been pointed out why that is a ridiculous and unworkable suggestion and you appear to be the only guy in Scotland who is championing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, The Moonster said: I'm not going round in circles with you again, it's been pointed out why that is a ridiculous and unworkable suggestion and you appear to be the only guy on pie & bovril who is championing it. FTFY 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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