Old Firm Colts in L2

[Bazil85]

1 hour ago, gannonball said:

The same could be said for just about every English premier league club yet we see hardly any coming through there, a lot of it though is down to them not wanting to risk throwing players in. We however do that now if they are working hard enough and have the talent. I dont think its me being disingeuous. 

 

 

Forrest has been one of our best players this season so yes. Macgregor has played over 30 games already this season sommust be there abouts. These are strange points to be arguing as they are clear talents. Im not arguing about whether colts is a good idea as a whole I was just disputing somebody wrongly claiming we dont produce players.

 

I think the idea is getting them ready for the Celtic team in a higher league by playing proper competitive football. Whoever you are quoting certainly isn’t me so  I would take your seethe eleswhere. Like I said Im not arguing whether colts is good for Scottish as whole it was mainly somebody saying that we dont produce youth players.

 

 

I take the point that Celtic have produced a few players. Nowhere near an acceptable level IMO for a team of their size and spending power. They could sign almost any young prospecet in Scotland but turn very few into first team quality players. I think I'd struggle to name five very good Celtic first  team stars produced by the club over the last decade. A few flash in the pans that have vanished by mid to late 20s. 

On the point of the thread (Colt teams) there is no argument this will produce better players than Celtic currently do. So it is 100% self-interest for them and the blue team. 

[Marshmallo]

2 hours ago, gannonball said:

 Can only speak for Celtic but we currently have 3 in the team (Macgregor,Forrest and Tierney)  with Johnston making the bench most weeks now. Ralston would have played a good few times as if he didnt get injured.For a team as good as our thats pretty decent, how many do you honestly expect Celtic to have? Rodgers has said there is talent in Scotland but its the players attitudes thats stops him from signing more scottish talent. This may be why he just doesnt chuck players in who attitude wise may not merit a chance and then think they have made it after a few appearances. I have a feeling putting some of them in league 2 and finding out they arent quite as good as they think they are may provide a reality check for them.

I can understand why lower league clubs are opposed to Colt teams but to suggest Celtic dont produce much in the way of youth is a bit silly given it has been pretty much the hardest team to get in to in Scotland since the turn of the  millenium yet off the top of my head since then McManus, Marshall, Beattie, O’Dea, Smith, Mulgrew,Miller, Maloney, Wallace have all contributed. Add in ones who didnt play much ( if at all) but we still made money are the likes of Sheridan and Feruz. We also made a few quid off the other ones so the academy can near enough pay for itself.

 

12 players in 18 years. Wow. And that includes the likes of Ross Wallace and Craig Beattie.

[Doonhamer doon south]

2 hours ago, Bairnardo said:

Someone should ask bawbag McCart how come Hamilton have managed to bring players through their ranks on a meagre budget, or even ourselves who have sold a few on for profit, and yet Rangers and Celtic have very little to shout about in this department. Perhaps because the likes of Hamilton and ourselves cant just spend money we dont have and actually have to attempt to get the young boys over the final hurdle of first team football.

f**k that though, lets give them a colt team so we can claim to have acted, whilst still allowing them to ignore youth in favour of spending millions on foreign dross trying to outdo eachother whilst failing to make any progress in comparison to European teams. What do they say about trying the same thing over and over expecting a different result?

Success to these cretins is beating the other cheek and singing their party songs. 

Of course, McCarts reply most likely would be along the lines of "This is happening anyway". 

Colt rant 29/01/18 complete*

 

*maybe. 

The day is still young

[The Spider]

1 hour ago, peternapper said:

Forget the development league & get a reserve league for all ages to compete in.

This!

I'll keep banging on about it until you're all sick of hearing it, but young players need to regularly play alongside seasoned pros from their own clubs in order to get the work experience they need to bridge the gap between apprenticeship and first team football, and if we cut back on the number of unnecessary bench places and loanees then it's possible to achieve with the appropriate diversion of SFA funds.

How many of you who are 40+ used to use your season tickets to watch the reserves on a Saturday afternoon if you were unable or chose not to follow your 1st team away? There's an entire generation who have never experienced the pleasure of watching potential first team players of the future develop in that environment, alongside more experienced fringe players or stars returning from injury.

Yes people will ask where the additional funds to cover increased expenses will come from, but I don't believe that's insurmountable with regionalisation and imagination, plus I would love someone to come up with a conservative estimate of how much it costs Scottish clubs over the course of an entire season to pay for unused subs on matchdays. My gut feel is that were that "wastage" (why any team outwith European and domestic cup semis and finals need more than three subs is beyond me) figure known it would raise a few eyebrows. In fact, I'll go further. Isn't the main reason for having so many subs is entirely because these guys don't have games they could be involved in?

It's by players having a game to look forward to every week (irrespective of whether it's first team or reserves) and fans of all ages having a similar weekly involvement, that a lot of the apathy currently pervading our game could be removed. it would also give up and coming match officials a pathway to develop, and if a first team player has a bad game it gives the guy whose desparate to take his place a competitive environment to demonstrate he's more than ready to come in.

 

[peternapper]

Quote

 

As a 40+ year old supporter remember in my younger days going along to see Aberdeen reserves playing quite regularly, games were played at Pittodrie & quite often in front of a decent crowd, saw a number of young players cut their teeth at this level & in those days games usually had an edge to them.  Removing the competitive edge can not have helped & again think the development league needs replaced but not by destroying league clubs to make space for a few that apart from getting a foothold in the league would not add anything to it.

[gannonball]

I take the point that Celtic have produced a few players. Nowhere near an acceptable level IMO for a team of their size and spending power. They could sign almost any young prospecet in Scotland but turn very few into first team quality players.

On the point of the thread (Colt teams) there is no argument this will produce better players than Celtic currently do. So it is 100% self-interest for them and the blue team. 

 

Just going off spending power is looking at it way too simplistically. The better the team the harder it is to get in to, which is why first team football elsewhere is benefical a lot of the time first.

A lot of it though is down to the current manager who must bite the bullet and give the player proper game time.

 

No disagreement however over it being self interest though.

 

12 players in 18 years. Wow. And that includes the likes of Ross Wallace and Craig Beattie.

 

The likes of those two got us nearly 3 million I think. Not so funny now. I also for got the likes of Mcgeady,watt and Kennedy.

 

 

[Bazil85]

1 minute ago, gannonball said:

 

Just going off spending power is looking at it way too simplistically. The better the team the harder it is to get in to, which is why first team football elsewhere is benefical a lot of the time first.
A lot of it though is down to the current manager who must bite the bullet and give the player proper game time.

No disagreement however over it being self interest though.



The likes of those two got us about 3 million I think. Not so funny now. I also for got the likes of Mcgeady,watt and Kennedy.

 

Probably worth pointing out that McGeady was taken from Queens Park youth system when he looked a very promising prospect, Tony Watt wasn't a Celtic youth graduate and is a classic example of a what could have been. 

[gannonball]

Probably worth pointing out that McGeady was taken from Queens Park youth system when he looked a very promising prospect, Tony Watt wasn't a Celtic youth graduate and is a classic example of a what could have been. 

I take your point about Watt but we had Mcgeady since he was 14 ffs, and took him from an 'amateur' club. We developed him.

 

[peternapper]

3 minutes ago, gannonball said:

I take your point about Watt but we had Mcgeady since he was 14 ffs, and took him from an 'amateur' club. We developed him.

 

How many Scotland caps did he earn?

[wastecoatwilly]

3 hours ago, The Moonster said:

I would suggest you remove that wool from over your eyes.

Away and f**k yourself. If Celtic are pouring millions into their youth development and not getting the desired results then I suggest you look in the fucking mirror instead of asking the rest of Scottish football to bend over and ruin their league competition to give youth players that Rangers and Celtic have no intention of ever fucking playing a game. It's honestly fucking hilarious how many OF fans don't see how ridiculous this suggestion is.

Hows sam wardrop doing?

[The Moonster]

Just now, wastecoatwilly said:

Hows sam wardrop doing?

Aside from being currently injured he's doing really well. The development loan system working absolute wonders.

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

Hows sam wardrop doing?

I'd be surprised if he didn't pick up our young player of the year based on his form prior to his injury.

Much like Jamie Lindsay (on loan from Celtic) and Daniel Harvie (on loan from Aberdeen) have the last 2 seasons. There may even be more young loanees who have won this but I can't remember off the top of my head and can't find a record of it anywhere.

[wastecoatwilly]

3 minutes ago, The Moonster said:

Aside from being currently injured he's doing really well. The development loan system working absolute wonders.

For me the loan system is great but not enough putting colt teams into senior football will improve the numbers,celtics youth helps more teams around scotland than it helps celtics first team.

[Ira Gaines]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Bring Back Paddy Flannery]

For me the loan system is great but not enough putting colt teams into senior football will improve the numbers,celtics youth helps more teams around scotland than it helps celtics first team.

Improve what numbers?

[The Moonster]

Just now, wastecoatwilly said:

For me the loan system is great but not enough putting colt teams into senior football will improve the numbers,celtics youth helps more teams around scotland than it helps celtics first team.

Celtic could always loan more players out if they feel enough aren't getting the game time they need - there is no restriction on the number of players you can send out on loan.

The other alternative would be for Celtic to stop signing so many players which leads to this massive bottle neck of players who can't get into Celtic's first team. Your clubs internal policy (and the demands of fans like yourself) lead your club to ignoring youth development in the name of glory. It is not Scottish football's requirement to help you with that.

[John MacLean]

1 hour ago, Randy Giles said:

Loan deals also allow these players to play at a higher level in actual competitive games where the league places actually mean something. Which is surely more beneficial than playing meaningless training games against the bottom tier sides.

Rangers' Myles Beerman played on loan for Queen of the South against Thistle in the Scottish Cup a week past Saturday. 

What would benefit him more as a player, playing against Premiership opposition in a Scottish Cup tie and Championship sides in a side looking for a play-off place or in League Two where it doesn't matter one jot whether his side wins or loses?

Beerman is an interesting example in another way. The proposal rabbits on about the failures of the Scottish national team. Beerman is Maltese. So even if there was benefit in him playing for Rangers Colts in League Two there would be no benefit long term for the Scottish national team. Just benefit for Rangers. And that, and I know I'm simply going over old ground, is one of the major flaws in a scheme full of flaws. It would potentially benefit just two teams.  

[Jaggy Snake]

1 hour ago, Marshmallo said:

12 players in 18 years. Wow. And that includes the likes of Ross Wallace and Craig Beattie.

And an injury crippled Craig Beattie eventually went on to play for Edinburgh City, about a decade after leaving Celtic. That must be the kind of trickle down effect that League Two fans would be excited to get more of with colt teams in the league.

[John MacLean]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

This!

I'll keep banging on about it until you're all sick of hearing it, but young players need to regularly play alongside seasoned pros from their own clubs in order to get the work experience they need to bridge the gap between apprenticeship and first team football, and if we cut back on the number of unnecessary bench places and loanees then it's possible to achieve with the appropriate diversion of SFA funds.

How many of you who are 40+ used to use your season tickets to watch the reserves on a Saturday afternoon if you were unable or chose not to follow your 1st team away? There's an entire generation who have never experienced the pleasure of watching potential first team players of the future develop in that environment, alongside more experienced fringe players or stars returning from injury.

Yes people will ask where the additional funds to cover increased expenses will come from, but I don't believe that's insurmountable with regionalisation and imagination, plus I would love someone to come up with a conservative estimate of how much it costs Scottish clubs over the course of an entire season to pay for unused subs on matchdays. My gut feel is that were that "wastage" (why any team outwith European and domestic cup semis and finals need more than three subs is beyond me) figure known it would raise a few eyebrows. In fact, I'll go further. Isn't the main reason for having so many subs is entirely because these guys don't have games they could be involved in?

It's by players having a game to look forward to every week (irrespective of whether it's first team or reserves) and fans of all ages having a similar weekly involvement, that a lot of the apathy currently pervading our game could be removed. it would also give up and coming match officials a pathway to develop, and if a first team player has a bad game it gives the guy whose desparate to take his place a competitive environment to demonstrate he's more than ready to come in.

 

Can't agree more re the reintroduction of the reserve leagues. 

The only thing I'd add is that fixtures, as they used to do, mirror the first team fixtures of that weekend. For example if Thistle are at Motherwell then the two reserve teams play at Firhill. 

[haufdaft]

Why should I care about the old firms youths anymore than they care about Clyde's?
I don't.
f**k them!