New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Pyramidic]

We seem to be struggling to find any new blood whatsoever for the EOSFL.

Perhaps another student oriented club:

Edinburgh Napier University - who currently play out of Ainslie Park Stadium on Wednesdays in the BUCS League Division 2A (Tier 2).

St Andrews University - who play in the same division.

Feels like clutching at straws!

Perhaps only way that vacancies in EOSFL Division Three could be filled would be from SPFL “B” teams with all the flack, hurt and bitterness that would bring.

[naebor]

On 05/02/2023 at 13:07, Ginaro said:

Maybe get in touch with some of the newer clubs who've moved up from amateur recently like Edinburgh College, Edinburgh South, Inverkeithing or some of the other "smaller" clubs. Also the West of Scotland League Fourth Division is basically made up of new clubs and their criteria is similar to the EOS.

That’s a very good idea I shall ask. Thanks for the response mate. Criteria isn’t far off for us to achieve it’s really just the cost and I’ve been told 2000 to apply at the moment but could be jumping to 20000 soon. If there’s truth in that would be a now or never situation. 

[FairWeatherFan]

21 minutes ago, naebor said:

That’s a very good idea I shall ask. Thanks for the response mate. Criteria isn’t far off for us to achieve it’s really just the cost and I’ve been told 2000 to apply at the moment but could be jumping to 20000 soon. If there’s truth in that would be a now or never situation. 

There might be some crosswires here. £2,000 is considered the amount required to start the SFA licensing process.

I don't know what the EoSFL membership fees are, but they would be in the hundreds not thousands. Probably with a bond that would be paid back after a couple of years.

Edited February 6, 2023 by FairWeatherFan

[naebor]

19 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

There might be some crosswires here. £2,000 is considered the amount required to start the SFA licensing process.

I don't know what the EoSFL membership fees are, but they would be in the hundreds not thousands. Probably with a bond that would be paid back after a couple of years.

If that’s correct,  will need to keep researching, we would probs need a big influx of cash to be able to pay players if we went that way, but if players just played for free we would probably be able to sustain them etc and provide all necessary to compete. Wouldn’t be able to pay some of the money larger clubs do but in time wouldnt see it being impossible.

[Ginaro]

19 minutes ago, naebor said:

If that’s correct,  will need to keep researching, we would probs need a big influx of cash to be able to pay players if we went that way, but if players just played for free we would probably be able to sustain them etc and provide all necessary to compete. Wouldn’t be able to pay some of the money larger clubs do but in time wouldnt see it being impossible.

A search for "bond" in this forum turns up some numbers from 2019 - £200 to join. Funnily enough few posts earlier someone else was getting confused with the £2k to apply for an SFA licence (i.e. to play in the Scottish Cup and get promoted out of the EOS, but that is not for clubs just starting out).

 

[naebor]

13 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

A search for "bond" in this forum turns up some numbers from 2019 - £200 to join. Funnily enough few posts earlier someone else was getting confused with the £2k to apply for an SFA licence (i.e. to play in the Scottish Cup and get promoted out of the EOS, but that is not for clubs just starting out).

 

Thanks for that, very pleased to see that. Need to go have some meetings with our community councillors before we would go further but have until the deadline to do so. 

[Spyro]

5 hours ago, newcastle broon said:

Peebles have struggled for a long time.

Vale look to be in trouble at the minute but the pyramid is there for teams to find their level.

Gala are doing exceptionally well to keep up their consistency season in season out and deserve huge credit for that. It might be a few years yet before they are in EoS waters again.Unless,of course,theres major changes at the top and bottom ends of the LL. 

There is also the story that Border amateur players preferred to play with their mates on a Saturday rather than trying a new level of football and the travel involved.

Would love to see more Border EoS teams.

Whitehill when they went senior in 1980 broke the mould in enticing players from the Edinburgh area. Rather than travel to the Borders players would prefer staying within a reasonable travelling distance.

This has been proven in EoSFL folklore.

Changed days now obviously with the merger of the associations.

All for the good of the game of course.

 

Saved me writing it all! 

Look at 2 out of 3 of Selkirk's closest clubs. Do we really need another Hawick or VoL struggling in the league? 

As for Chirnside and Duns, again there is a resurgence from the East Lothian clubs with Coldstream and Tweedmouth ready there so I think that's covered too.

Also, as nice as it looks, Chirnside's Park is horrendous and only careful manicuring from the main man keeps it playable. Plus the far end corner flag used to be about crossbar level so that'll need fixed! 

[stanley]

8 hours ago, fanfromafar said:

I agree, it is a shame that there are not more border clubs in the EOS leagues but over recent years borders clubs don't tend to excel and actually have history of going in the other direction.

You only have to look at the likes of Duns, Selkirk, Kelso utd and also Eyemouth who have all had been part of the EOS setup but had to leave the league. Vale are on the down fall now, However the likes of Peebles, Coldstream, Hawick and Tweedmouth all seem to be holding their own playing at their level but i dont see much chance of either of them moving up the leagues. 

The exception is obviously Gala and i do recall the vale & peebles having a good spell under rab paget years ago but this was because they attracted players from Edinburgh down & spending big cash. 

Clubs like Chirnside, Duns even Greenlaw and West Linton would be good additions to the EOS leagues but is it worth the financial debt to potentially achieve not an awful lot.

Agree on the Pub part.

If there were more divisions added to the EoS and regionalisation at the bottom, I think you could get more interest from the borders clubs. The bottom tier is mainly West Lothian clubs just now because of them moving from the juniors after all the others moved but it will certainly feature more borders clubs in the coming years.

Coldstream are doing well currently to be in the first division. Tweedmouth and Peebles are also doing well to be mid-table in the second division but obviously they are playing at a low level. I certainly have to disagree with the idea that Hawick are "holding their own". They are bottom of the table with 5 points and 0 wins after 17 games. They have done very badly for a long, long time. Their last season in the old EoS Premier was 1987-88. They are likely to be stuck in the bottom tier of the EoS for a long time unless anything changes at the club.

Gala Fairydean are doing well although I think they'll be struggling to keep their place in the Lowland League once more of the ex-juniors get promoted. Berwick aren't doing great either. I think we'll be lucky to see even one borders club in the Lowland League or above in ten years time but it would be good to see some of them do better and it's too early to write Berwick off yet.

Edit: Berwick would actually be 7th without the B teams so are doing better than I thought they were. Not amazing for an ex-SPFL club but certainly miles better than Cowdenbeath and East Stirlingshire and ahead of Gala too.

Edited February 6, 2023 by stanley

[tamthebam]

It occurs to me that Perth now has two EOSL clubs in Jeanfield and Kinnoull and a Tayside club in Letham. Letham may be content to stay where they are though 

 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

It occurs to me that Perth now has two EOSL clubs in Jeanfield and Kinnoull and a Tayside club in Letham. Letham may be content to stay where they are though 

 

 

I'd imagine they'd be happy where they are playing the biggest teams in the Midlands. Rather than enter the EoSFL in a division that could look like this:

Bathgate Thistle
Craigroyston
Edinburgh College
Fauldhouse United
Harthill Royal
Hawick Royal Albert
Livingston United
Lochgelly Albert
Ormiston Primrose
Pumpherston
Stoneyburn
West Calder United

[WestHibee]

5 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

We seem to be struggling to find any new blood whatsoever for the EOSFL.

Perhaps another student oriented club:

Edinburgh Napier University - who currently play out of Ainslie Park Stadium on Wednesdays in the BUCS League Division 2A (Tier 2).

St Andrews University - who play in the same division.

Feels like clutching at straws!

Perhaps only way that vacancies in EOSFL Division Three could be filled would be from SPFL “B” teams with all the flack, hurt and bitterness that would bring.

Won't be St Andrews, they had a good side last year and finished 3rd in the Kingdom League but have decided to withdraw from Saturday football 

[Eric's Cantina]

13 hours ago, stanley said:

If there were more divisions added to the EoS and regionalisation at the bottom, I think you could get more interest from the borders clubs. The bottom tier is mainly West Lothian clubs just now because of them moving from the juniors after all the others moved but it will certainly feature more borders clubs in the coming years.

Coldstream are doing well currently to be in the first division. Tweedmouth and Peebles are also doing well to be mid-table in the second division but obviously they are playing at a low level. I certainly have to disagree with the idea that Hawick are "holding their own". They are bottom of the table with 5 points and 0 wins after 17 games. They have done very badly for a long, long time. Their last season in the old EoS Premier was 1987-88. They are likely to be stuck in the bottom tier of the EoS for a long time unless anything changes at the club.

Gala Fairydean are doing well although I think they'll be struggling to keep their place in the Lowland League once more of the ex-juniors get promoted. Berwick aren't doing great either. I think we'll be lucky to see even one borders club in the Lowland League or above in ten years time but it would be good to see some of them do better and it's too early to write Berwick off yet.

Edit: Berwick would actually be 7th without the B teams so are doing better than I thought they were. Not amazing for an ex-SPFL club but certainly miles better than Cowdenbeath and East Stirlingshire and ahead of Gala too.

I might be imaging things but weren't Hawick in the Lowland League for a brief time?

Edited February 7, 2023 by Eric's Cantina

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, Eric's Cantina said:

I might be imaging things but weren't Hawick in the Lowland League for a brief time?

Yes, they rounded it out to 16 as one of the last applicants. Managed to avoid relegation in their first season as Preston Athletic had a bombscare. Then HRA were down the following season.

[realmadrid]

15 hours ago, tamthebam said:

It occurs to me that Perth now has two EOSL clubs in Jeanfield and Kinnoull and a Tayside club in Letham. Letham may be content to stay where they are though 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I'd imagine they'd be happy where they are playing the biggest teams in the Midlands. Rather than enter the EoSFL in a division that could look like this:

Bathgate Thistle
Craigroyston
Edinburgh College
Fauldhouse United
Harthill Royal
Hawick Royal Albert
Livingston United
Lochgelly Albert
Ormiston Primrose
Pumpherston
Stoneyburn
West Calder United

Letham did apply to join the EOS for season 2021-22 but were rejected due to the distance of the club house to the pitch , so made the application to the Midland league who have no issues with it.  They were happy to start at the bottom and work there way up the EOS.  They had to give a commitment to join the highland league should they ever win the midland league and have a licence but that's probably never going to happen.

The good thing for Letham is there are plenty local games with Scone, Blairgowrie , Coupar Angus etc as well as the games in Dundee. 

[Pyramidic]

Common sense should prevail in the EOSFL and Division Two/Three should be combined to create two sensible third tier regional groups. At long last we would have the beginnings of a proper pyramid.

SECOND DIVISION
NORTH

Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Bo'ness Athletic
Burntisland Shipyard
Fauldhouse United
Harthill Royal
Kennoway Star Hearts
Livingston United
Lochgelly Albert
Newburgh Juniors
Pumpherston
Stoneyburn
Thornton Hibs
West Calder United

(14 teams)

SECOND DIVISION
SOUTH

Arniston Rangers
Craigroyston
Dalkeith Thistle
Easthouses Lily MW
Edinburgh College
Edinburgh South
Edinburgh United
Hawick Royal Albert
Heriot Watt University
Ormiston Primrose
Peebles Rovers
Stirling University EOSFL *
Tweedmouth Rangers
Whitehill Welfare

(14 teams)

* Stirling University EOSFL as a "B" team moved from its geographical grouping to balance the group numbers. Can also compete with the two other university/college teams.

Bo'ness Athletic and Armadale Thistle would be unhappy but the greater good of Scottish football for the future is much more important. New blood would want to join such a setup in particular Duns.

[patriot1]

7 hours ago, Pyramidic said:

Common sense should prevail in the EOSFL and Division Two/Three should be combined to create two sensible third tier regional groups. At long last we would have the beginnings of a proper pyramid.

SECOND DIVISION
NORTH

Armadale Thistle
Bathgate Thistle
Bo'ness Athletic
Burntisland Shipyard
Fauldhouse United
Harthill Royal
Kennoway Star Hearts
Livingston United
Lochgelly Albert
Newburgh Juniors
Pumpherston
Stoneyburn
Thornton Hibs
West Calder United

(14 teams)

SECOND DIVISION
SOUTH

Arniston Rangers
Craigroyston
Dalkeith Thistle
Easthouses Lily MW
Edinburgh College
Edinburgh South
Edinburgh United
Hawick Royal Albert
Heriot Watt University
Ormiston Primrose
Peebles Rovers
Stirling University EOSFL *
Tweedmouth Rangers
Whitehill Welfare

(14 teams)

* Stirling University EOSFL as a "B" team moved from its geographical grouping to balance the group numbers. Can also compete with the two other university/college teams.

Bo'ness Athletic and Armadale Thistle would be unhappy but the greater good of Scottish football for the future is much more important. New blood would want to join such a setup in particular Duns.

We already have regionalisation.

Scotland is divided into two regions, Highland and Lowland. The Lowland is divided into three more regions, West, South and East. How much further do we need to go?

If teams don’t want to travel to play a game of football they should be in the amateur leagues. Honestly, if Duns join the EOS is it too much to ask them to come to Fife three or four times in a season?!?
 

 

[FairWeatherFan]

I'd think the only thing that might spur a change to the 3rd Division is the lack of numbers compared to every other division. On paper its 16-16-16-12 next year. 

Then no one's complained too much about Conferences. Which could be reseeded each year to keep things fresh. 

Regionalisation basically exists below the EoSFL: Fife, LEAFA and Borders amateur leagues. 

[Robert James]

On 06/02/2023 at 16:14, Pyramidic said:

We seem to be struggling to find any new blood whatsoever for the EOSFL.

Perhaps another student oriented club:

Edinburgh Napier University - who currently play out of Ainslie Park Stadium on Wednesdays in the BUCS League Division 2A (Tier 2).

St Andrews University - who play in the same division.

Feels like clutching at straws!

Perhaps only way that vacancies in EOSFL Division Three could be filled would be from SPFL “B” teams with all the flack, hurt and bitterness that would bring.

 I am not in favour of SPFL clubs entering 'B'/Reserve teams into the pyramid. However, it is possible (probable ?) that Hibernian will seek to enter their 2nd XI into the Lowland League, alongside their neighbours, sooner rather than later.

Prior to the Pandemic, Inverness Caley Thistle did make an unofficial approach about entering its' 'B' team into the Highland League, so the HFL isn't immune from a further approach ? If so, Aberdeen might also decide to apply to the HFL ?.

Hopefully NOT, as this trend would have an adverse effect on the Pyramid IMO.     

[Auld Heid]

14 hours ago, Robert James said:

 I am not in favour of SPFL clubs entering 'B'/Reserve teams into the pyramid. However, it is possible (probable ?) that Hibernian will seek to enter their 2nd XI into the Lowland League, alongside their neighbours, sooner rather than later.

Prior to the Pandemic, Inverness Caley Thistle did make an unofficial approach about entering its' 'B' team into the Highland League, so the HFL isn't immune from a further approach ? If so, Aberdeen might also decide to apply to the HFL ?.

Hopefully NOT, as this trend would have an adverse effect on the Pyramid IMO.     

The real problems I see are:

Bottleneck from EoS, WoS and SoS to LL, only 1 promotion spot. There should be 1 relegation and 1 play-off spot (a natural semi final with 3 league winners and 2nd bottom LL - both finalists filling LL spots).

Tayside question / midland league needs sorted.

I think Colt clubs, shouldn't be included automatically in LL unless there is a proper pathway below to get into LL.

 

[alan862]

7 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

The real problems I see are:

Bottleneck from EoS, WoS and SoS to LL, only 1 promotion spot. There should be 1 relegation and 1 play-off spot (a natural semi final with 3 league winners and 2nd bottom LL - both finalists filling LL spots).

Tayside question / midland league needs sorted.

I think Colt clubs, shouldn't be included automatically in LL unless there is a proper pathway below to get into LL.

 

Tayside question has been sorted it's highland pyramid why it was different in the juniors is because their was no junior team all the way down at coldstream and hawick