Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[The_Kincardine]

18 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Are you similarly troubled by the idea of towns either side of the numerous other borders like it elsewhere in the world?

My views on what happens elsewhere are immaterial - although my constant support of the EU will give you an idea of where my thinking lies.  Partitioning Britain - driven by the vile politics of identity and division - is regressive. 

[Monkey Tennis]

25 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

My views on what happens elsewhere are immaterial - although my constant support of the EU will give you an idea of where my thinking lies.  Partitioning Britain - driven by the vile politics of identity and division - is regressive. 

What if it's driven by a desire to detach ourselves from the pervading politics of the UK, because most Scots reject it?

I think it's daft not to recognise that.  It's quite possible to favour independence, while harbouring no particular anti-English sentiment or fondness for Braveheart.  There needn't be anything "vile" about it.  

[hearthammer]

23 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

My views on what happens elsewhere are immaterial - although my constant support of the EU will give you an idea of where my thinking lies.  Partitioning Britain - driven by the vile politics of identity and division - is regressive. 

By inference, and substantiated by the complete dearth of a critique in any shape or form by you, you fully support the heinous actions made by the current (and their co-cabalists for the past 12 years) incumbents at Westminster where they have pulled up their financial drawbridge to ensure normal, ordinary people are chasing scraps and suffering, whilst you/they and their ilk maximise their progression financially. 

Not so much the actions of the Tartan Gonks, but the Westminster Wankers and the Bucks Bawbags. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

On 14/10/2022 at 16:06, Paco said:

I found it interesting to see Nicola Stirgeon calling for an election, having seen Ian Blackford earlier in the day doing his absolute best to avoid saying it.

Would mean the next General Election - potentially the ‘independence’ election - being held in late 2027 or early 2028, at least a year after the next Scottish Parliament election is due.

Make the next general election the indy election, dont wait, if theres an election in January then so be it. 

[williemillersmoustache]

The border between Scotland and England, wait for it........already exists. 

Nobody is partitioning anything you galoot. Because the partition is already there......

There are already legislative differences between one side and the other, Independence would create new ones, ones I believe can have most of the new frictions mitigated.  But we don't know the circumstances.  Maybe if an iScotland has an immigration system that isn't an evil fucking disgrace,  rUK will have kittens and want enhanced controls on the movement of people, but I doubt it. So a common travel area is almost guaranteed and (as should have happened in the first fucking place) the UK/EU/Single Market border can move to Gretna and the negotiated light touch regs can be there. And not where only a few years ago mad b*****ds blew up border posts, and shot each other. Because the UK had actually fucking partitioned somewhere. 

Maybe iScotland and the EU will want to stop the shitey deregulated goods and foodstuffs Britannia Unchaineds morons want to allow in to England. Like GM and chlorinated chicken. 

The fact is we don't know but, there won't be guard towers, minefields, machine gun nests and folk tunnelling under no man's land to get a glass bottle of irn bru./the really nice selection of cheeses you get in Booths. 

This is shite. It was in 2014 and it is now  

More's the pity. Personally I'd create a DMZ from Preston to Lockerbie filled with dog shite, broken glass and atomic midges mutated by all the nuclear waste from Dounray and the rotting cold war submarine fleet, which we'd park in there and all. 

On the border. Which already exists. 

 

 

[The_Kincardine]

14 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What if it's driven by a desire to detach ourselves from the pervading politics of the UK, because most Scots reject it?

In a week when the FM showed a visceral detestation of about a quarter of Scotland's population it's daft to say anything other than the desire for independence is always driven by identity and division.  We saw this very clearly in August when the FM and Brian Cox agreed it was all about, "Country before Policies".

Policies change but the clamour for partition remains.  Thus, in 1975, the justification for separation was the policy of continuing EEC membership.  In 2022 the policy of Brexit- in contrast - is a big driver for many Nats.  Again, in the 70s it was hydrocarbons that were used to justify partition.  In recent years the cry is 'It's Scotland's wind farms'.

Policy is short term and transient.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

 it's daft to say anything other than the desire for independence is always driven by identity and division.  

When, say, the Baltic states separated from the Soviet Union, were the motivations similarly malevolent?

[williemillersmoustache]

36 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What if it's driven by a desire to detach ourselves from the pervading politics of the UK, because most Scots reject it?

At the risk of giving the game away here, have unionists ever considered running the UK...well? 

I can't think of anything more effective at blunting the Yes campaign and my own personal views are included here than the UK government not being either cartwheeling goat fucking shambles or a shameful vindictive spiteful jumped up tinpot embarrassment, still unable to come to terms with the loss of Empire and its much diminished status in the world. 

 

[The_Kincardine]

4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

When, say, the Baltic states separated from the Soviet Union, were the motivations similarly malevolent?

Latvian independence - after the Soviet collapse - has almost no parallels with the desire to partition Great Britain - the nation Scotland helped create in 1707 and in which we have fully participated ever since.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Latvian independence - after the Soviet collapse - has almost no parallels with the desire to partition Great Britain - the nation Scotland helped create in 1707 and in which we have fully participated ever since.

Ok does that mean it wasn't true when you said " it's daft to say anything other than the desire for independence is always driven by identity and division" then?

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

Ok does that mean it wasn't true when you said " it's daft to say anything other than the desire for independence is always driven by identity and division" then?

We're discussing Britain.  

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

We're discussing Britain.  

You're at it.

I've been asking if all land borders and divisions between peoples are essentially wrong, because you've been apparently saying just that.  The use of "always" in your argument was a pretty good indication of this.

Now you're pulling that line.  

Christ man, you made more consistent sense on the Rangers threads back in the day. 

[The_Kincardine]

18 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're at it.

I've been asking if all land borders and divisions between peoples are essentially wrong, because you've been apparently saying just that.  The use of "always" in your argument was a pretty good indication of this.

Now you're pulling that line.  

Christ man, you made more consistent sense on the Rangers threads back in the day. 

Oh behave!

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, The_Kincardine said:

Oh behave!

Yeah you're right.

you spouted rubbish then too.

[doulikefish]

Ah the drunk oaf has surfaced this is your UK own the mess your Tory party is causing...own it you clown 

Ps Notice your happy the border is in the Irish sea or has that slipped your mind

[GNU_Linux]

British exceptionalism is cracking patter.

[Miguel Sanchez]

iJock is gonna build a wall, and Buckinghamshire is gonna pay for it. 

[The_Kincardine]

18 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yeah you're right.

you spouted rubbish then too.

In a thread entitled "Oor Nicola Sturgeon" I can say 'nationalism has always been...' and assume that posters will know we're discussing Scotland.

I know posters get angry when the regressive notion of imposing an international border where none exists is criticised.  But that's the nature of nationalism:  Angry, disaffected people driven by identity and division.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

In a thread entitled "Oor Nicola Sturgeon" I can say 'nationalism has always been...' and assume that posters will know we're discussing Scotland.

And yet the 'logic' you use when referring to Gretna/Longtown etc, would surely have to apply elsewhere if it was indeed logical at all.

How foolish you sometimes look.

[The_Kincardine]

51 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

And yet the 'logic' you use when referring to Gretna/Longtown etc, would surely have to apply elsewhere if it was indeed logical at all.

How foolish you sometimes look.

Eh?  Saying it's ok to cross an international border to go from Gretna to Longtown - and to use different currencies in each place  - is ok 'because Latvia' is sensible?

Nationalism rots people's brains.