Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[ScotiaNostra]

1 hour ago, KingRocketman II said:

I think we see in Scotland circa 45% v much in favour of indy and 45% v much against, regardless of what is thrown at them.

NS has failed to convince the floating 10% but given the shitshow of the last 5 years or so, something tells me that the floating 10% are not going to change their opinion on the basis of stronger economic argument or a firm currency proposal. They will change their position based on the weather, the color of shoes they are wearing or whether they see their favourite trifle on a reduced item shelf. And then flip back to the opposite position the following day. 

Until a SNP leader actually makes an effort we wont know whos right

[SandyCromarty]

4 hours ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

I think the reaction to Nicola Sturgeon's resignation is perhaps the measure of her time in Scottish, UK and indeed global politics.  The passage of time will provide further clarity as to any lasting achievements.

Which of course feeds into the drive for independence, and I have to admit to some fascination at the expectation of many unionist politicos and journos that it is now stone dead in the water.

If so, then it seems many of us have basically been seduced by a Svengali and Mata Hari in quick order, and the movement has been built on little more than sand.  And according to the right-wing London press we'll be virtually queuing up to return to the suffocating embrace of Labour.  Which tells us just how unthreatening is Sir Keir's Labour Party.

It's a nice line in wishful thinking, I'll give them that.

 

At westminster level Scottish Independence is obviously regarded as a threat to the union on many levels so it is a given that the media, which is 99% tory owned, will spew out anti SNP/Independence propaganda, they have been doing so for years now, even small town local papers owned by english companies are involved

One area, from a westminster aspect, which has given the greatest concern for them is where the SNP have emphatically stated that an Independent Scotland will want the Nuclear base removed from Faslane, a document I read, produced by the MOD, stated that any relocation of the nuclear facility would come at enormous cost and anticipated public outcry as a new site in england would have to be sourced, one proposal they put forward was to offer the Independent Scottish State an annual fee to maintain the status quo, but the anticipation was that the proposal would be rejected given that Scotland's west coast would be first strike.

So this nuclear facility and the financial and relocation outcry it would generate is seen as the main reason to stop Independence at all costs.

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

I see that Nicola Sturgeon thinks her legacy is that Scotland is fairer today than it was in 2015. Even she couldn’t come up with any biggies in terms of legacy, so she went for that vague legacy, which is difficult to prove or disprove.

For me her legacy is a time of unbridled electoral success but total inability to do anything of note with that success.

Scotland has become a country that specialises in producing policy documents which are poorly thought through and only superficially discussed with those who will need to put those policies into action. 

Scotland has become a country where public services don’t work anymore. Now, that’s been a gradual decline since the Tories took over in 2010, speeded up by Covid and Brexit, but sadly for her, the bit where the public sector really stopped working happened during her shift.

Sadly, I don’t see any appreciable talent behind Sturgeon. Her cabinet are likely a large part of the reason that Sturgeon has struggled.

 

Strong opinionated women a problem for you?

[Central Belt Caley]

2 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Is it easier to make the case for independence when the country is an absolute shambles or when it’s doing reasonably well?

I’m not sure, but the last few years with the Tories must have been like shooting fish in a barrel and yet there hasn’t been much in the way of in-roads towards independence. 

I suspect that people don’t trust the SNP to run an independent Scotland any more than they trust the Tories at Westminster.

At least if we were independent and the SNP were the government and they made an arse of it we could vote them out.
Whereas with the status quo, every single person in Scotland could vote Labour but if England voted for the Tories we’d get the Tories. 

[alta-pete]

34 minutes ago, Central Belt Caley said:

At least if we were independent and the SNP were the government and they made an arse of it we could vote them out.
Whereas with the status quo, every single person in Scotland could vote Labour but if England voted for the Tories we’d get the Tories. 

 

[Ned Nederlander]

9 hours ago, Central Belt Caley said:

The silver lining of her standing down is that the dreadful patter of “Nippy Sweety”, “Wee Jimmy Krankie” and “Nicoliar” will hopefully be forgotten about on this forum + social media 

I remember thinking much the same when she took over from Salmond.

 

[DrewDon]

Almost mustering a laugh at how pathetically desperate this is as a line of attack. 

[Gordon EF]

15 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

So if I have understood correctly, you consider that Sturgeon saw an unprecedented world wide pandemic as her opportunity to act upon a life long held grudge she held against amateur football. Yes, quite the sane interpretation of it all 

It's either that of she got thrown into a shitshow that nobody was prepared for and got some things right, some things wrong, and made some subjective decisions some people didn't agree with. But nah, that's mental, probably some conspiracy theory or something.

[LongTimeLurker]

God forbid someone on a football board would be upset about football games not being played.

[welshbairn]

Lukashenko never bothered with that nonsense, half bottle of vodka and a sauna after the game sorted it.

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, Central Belt Caley said:

At least if we were independent and the SNP were the government and they made an arse of it we could vote them out.
Whereas with the status quo, every single person in Scotland could vote Labour but if England voted for the Tories we’d get the Tories. 

It’s not me that needs convinced. It’s the other 50% of Scotland.

[Jeff Venom]

1 hour ago, alta-pete said:

 

What about that do you disagree with? 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

13 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

What about that do you disagree with? 

He's just being his usual "edgy" contrarian self.

[alta-pete]

 Not sooking the Nicola/SNP Kool Aid = Edgy Contrarianism?

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

3 minutes ago, alta-pete said:

 Not sooking the Nicola/SNP Kool Aid = Edgy Contrarianism?

 

[alta-pete]

[Scary Bear]

3 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

Strong opinionated women a problem for you?

I used to really like Nicola in the early years. Then I didn’t.
 

However, I occasionally watch a few minutes of Loose Women, so I’m going to say ‘no’ in answer to your question.

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Sturgeon stuck her neck out for a vulnerable group of people and the Tories took full advantage.

Whether you like her or not examine your soul if you want to see her go over this.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

4 hours ago, Scary Bear said:

Is it easier to make the case for independence when the country is an absolute shambles or when it’s doing reasonably well?

I’m not sure, but the last few years with the Tories must have been like shooting fish in a barrel and yet there hasn’t been much in the way of in-roads towards independence. 

I suspect that people don’t trust the SNP to run an independent Scotland any more than they trust the Tories at Westminster.

That can be explained by the simple analogy that the dying patient seldom jumps out of the bed and strides past the nurse.  In other words meaningful change normally occurs when people are confident and convinced of their wellbeing, and the majority Scottish political psyche is currently very far from that.

Part of that undoubtedly lies with the SNP's failure to articulate the economic and currency case for independence, and that will be a prerequisite for any future attempt.  However, an even greater reality for a huge swathe of the UK population, never mind Scotland, is bearing the fallout of catastrophic Tory economic mismanagement and political incompetence culminating in the nativist idiocy of a Brexit which is already plunging Britain into years of recession.  Folk are rightfully scared shitless and Nationalists and Unionists alike should at least acknowledge that situation.

A further problem for Scotland is that despite Westminster's weasel words the Supreme Court has recently confirmed that this country IS actually yoked to RUK.  As for people trusting the SNP I've long been convinced that the independence movement has to be broadened outwith that party, especially as the right-wing media has for far too long enjoying firing at a single target.  And if independence is ever achieved there is an almost total certainty that the political kaleidoscope will turn and the SNP will disappear in the eventual alignment.

One final question - when was the last time any country on these islands was doing well ?  Bonus point for anyone who answers the Republic of Ireland.

[Scary Bear]

3 minutes ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

That can be explained by the simple analogy that the dying patient seldom jumps out of the bed and strides past the nurse.  In other words meaningful change normally occurs when people are confident and convinced of their wellbeing, and the majority Scottish political psyche is currently very far from that.

Part of that undoubtedly lies with the SNP's failure to articulate the economic and currency case for independence, and that will be a prerequisite for any future attempt.  However, an even greater reality for a huge swathe of the UK population, never mind Scotland, is bearing the fallout of catastrophic Tory economic mismanagement and political incompetence culminating in the nativist idiocy of a Brexit which is already plunging Britain into years of recession.  Folk are rightfully scared shitless and Nationalists and Unionists alike should at least acknowledge that situation.

A further problem for Scotland is that despite Westminster's weasel words the Supreme Court has recently confirmed that this country IS actually yoked to RUK.  As for people trusting the SNP I've long been convinced that the independence movement has to be broadened outwith that party, especially as the right-wing media has for far too long enjoying firing at a single target.  And if independence is ever achieved there is an almost total certainty that the political kaleidoscope will turn and the SNP will disappear in the eventual alignment.

One final question - when was the last time any country on these islands was doing well ?  Bonus point for anyone who answers the Republic of Ireland.

The New Labour years were pretty good up until the banking crisis. If independence isn’t an option then the only way to get rid of the Tories seems to be to replace them with Labour.