Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[CarrbridgeSaintee]

4 hours ago, GTee said:

Maybe No voters on here could say why they are No voters?

Don't recognise Scotland is a country in its own right. 

Prefer to be governed by a larger neighbouring country.

Didn't like Salmond.

Didn't like Sturgeon.

Other reasons.

?

 

 

Because historically, culturally and in terms of nationhood, I feel British.

I don’t see any need to divide up the country, and am more than comfortable having the same chance as everyone else to vote for an MP, in a system where in terms of population, Scottish constituencies are actually over represented.

I’m a right-wing capitalist, although not of the free-market type, which puts me at odds with the Government.

Anything that’d take us down a more socialist road is a big No No from me.

In the event of an independent Scotland, we’d lose important, long-standing and wholesome traditions, which would break my heart

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Because historically, culturally and in terms of nationhood, I feel British.

I don’t see any need to divide up the country, and am more than comfortable having the same chance as everyone else to vote for an MP, in a system where in terms of population, Scottish constituencies are actually over represented.

I’m a right-wing capitalist, although not of the free-market type, which puts me at odds with the Government.

Anything that’d take us down a more socialist road is a big No No from me.

In the event of an independent Scotland, we’d lose important, long-standing and wholesome traditions, which would break my heart

[Dunfermline Don]

1 hour ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

In the event of an independent Scotland, we’d lose important, long-standing and wholesome traditions, which would break my heart

Please tell me what these important and long standing traditions are that an independent Scotland would lose?

We would still be part of the British Isles and have England as our nearest neighbours.

 

 

[renton]

7 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:

Please tell me what these important and long standing traditions are that an independent Scotland would lose?

We would still be part of the British Isles and have England as our nearest neighbours.

 

 

Don't forget wholesome.

[Iain]

People on the right don't feel a democratic deficit because they're content with Tory governments and might even be concerned they wouldn't get them if Scotland were independent.

[ScotiaNostra]

The only reason we dont have independence is a failure of the indy movement to get it, we have another chance at the moment to review where we are going and how we are going to get it. Endlessly bringing up the same points has done feck all. I really hope whoever comes in is someone inspiring, a real leader and someone who will actulally try and push for independence and take some risks to get it in the short term or lay out another path and plan that gets it on a longer path but bit by bit, more power devolved incrementally.

wasting time repeating the same arguments or put downs seems to be preferred though by a lot

Edited February 17, 2023 by ScotiaNostra

[Monkey Tennis]

11 minutes ago, Iain said:

People on the right don't feel a democratic deficit because they're content with Tory governments and might even be concerned they wouldn't get them if Scotland were independent.

All true, but that group is very much smaller than the one that voted No.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

4 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

and only takes him to his second para to give us his insightful fresh laser sharp Westminster-centric analysis of the problem with NS:

All Sturgeon could do was plunge an ever more visceral anti-Englishness into courtroom battles with London that she was never likely to win.

 

He lost me at  

‘possibly aided by sensible and open-minded leaders of the Labour and Tory parties’.

[Leith Green]

4 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

and only takes him to his second para to give us his insightful fresh laser sharp Westminster-centric analysis of the problem with NS:

All Sturgeon could do was plunge an ever more visceral anti-Englishness into courtroom battles with London that she was never likely to win.

 

Yeah, I read that today and thought the exact same.

It should be instructive to those who badge themselves "unionists" just how little regard some of these people hold Scotland in that they cant even do some decent investigative journalism.

Nick Robinson on R4 yesterday, Simon Jenkins in the Guardian, Iain Hislop on QT (which asked last night for a show of hands on Scottish Independence in that well known hotbed of nationalism.......Rugby last night).

Their common thread is a distinct lack of knowledge about a subject about which they spout on a massive platform.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

4 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

and only takes him to his second para to give us his insightful fresh laser sharp Westminster-centric analysis of the problem with NS:

All Sturgeon could do was plunge an ever more visceral anti-Englishness into courtroom battles with London that she was never likely to win.

 

He's another Londoncentric journalist who doesn't get it.

[renton]

4 hours ago, KingRocketman II said:

Simon Jenkins, your English pundit there guesting as a panelist at a Scottish international or cup game, having only had a diet solely of English football or CL games involving English teams. He tells us that Callum McGregor does that "week in and week out" without the merest hint of embarrassment and self awareness:

There is a path to Scottish independence. Sturgeon was brilliant, but she just couldn’t see it

Simon Jenkins

 

The sheer breadth of ignorance and arrogance in that article is breath taking.

For me, the two central points he misses are that the Calman commission happened. What we got out of that is what the WM parties could stomach giving us. What we have is the limit of Devolution now, we are at Devo Max.

Second, the simple fact that we would lose our court battles with WM show how the British (read, English) constitution makes Parliament the supreme arbiter of everything. There is no one we can appeal to. Which neatly loops back to point 1.

A third bonus point: all his boviating about our economy is built on GERS 

[Richey Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

Yeah, I read that today and thought the exact same.

It should be instructive to those who badge themselves "unionists" just how little regard some of these people hold Scotland in that they cant even do some decent investigative journalism.

Nick Robinson on R4 yesterday, Simon Jenkins in the Guardian, Iain Hislop on QT (which asked last night for a show of hands on Scottish Independence in that well known hotbed of nationalism.......Rugby last night).

Their common thread is a distinct lack of knowledge about a subject about which they spout on a massive platform.

Scotland actually won Rugby last week and the week before.

[Cheese]

2 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

I’m a right-wing capitalist, although not of the free-market type, which puts me at odds with the government.

What type of 'capitalist' are you then ?

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, renton said:

The sheer breadth of ignorance and arrogance in that article is breath taking.

For me, the two central points he misses are that the Calman commission happened. What we got out of that is what the WM parties could stomach giving us. What we have is the limit of Devolution now, we are at Devo Max.

Second, the simple fact that we would lose our court battles with WM show how the British (read, English) constitution makes Parliament the supreme arbiter of everything. There is no one we can appeal to. Which neatly loops back to point 1.

A third bonus point: all his boviating about our economy is built on GERS 

The central point that he missed is that it was Salmond who pushed for a Devo Max second question in 2014, which was rejected by David Cameron. Which blows up the entire premise of his argument. 

It sums up the nick of the London media that nobody completed an even bare minimum fact-checking exercise before publishing that nonsense. 

[Leith Green]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

The central point that he missed is that it was Salmond who pushed for a Devo Max second question in 2014, which was rejected by David Cameron. Which blows up the entire premise of his argument. 

It sums up the nick of the London media that nobody completed an even bare minimum fact-checking exercise before publishing that nonsense. 

There have always been people who can write but who miss the nuance - a lot of these people have traditionally been kept in check by sub editors and editors who know the subject and would put a line through copy if it was demonstrably shite.

There is little evidence of genuine editing these days, and far too many Comment pieces masquerade as News Stories - sadly many of the readership struggle to see the difference.

[razamanaz]

23 hours ago, Central Belt Caley said:

The silver lining of her standing down is that the dreadful patter of “Nippy Sweety”, “Wee Jimmy Krankie” and “Nicoliar” will hopefully be forgotten about on this forum + social media 

You forgot Elsie McSelfie, hundreds of selfies with the great and the good at conferences she wasn't invited to

[vikingTON]

8 minutes ago, Leith Green said:

There have always been people who can write but who miss the nuance - a lot of these people have traditionally been kept in check by sub editors and editors who know the subject and would put a line through copy if it was demonstrably shite.

There is little evidence of genuine editing these days, and far too many Comment pieces masquerade as News Stories - sadly many of the readership struggle to see the difference.

It is technically a comment piece but he's on the Guardian payroll as a regular contributor. It should still be fact-checked otherwise it's no different from some bloke braying after 7 pints in a pub. 

[renton]

17 minutes ago, virginton said:

It is technically a comment piece but he's on the Guardian payroll as a regular contributor. It should still be fact-checked otherwise it's no different from some bloke braying after 7 pints in a pub. 

There is no way of knowing he didn't compose that mess into his phone, standing at the bar, 5 pints of Barley ale in, in some homes Counties Green King Inn.

[Scary Bear]

3 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

Because historically, culturally and in terms of nationhood, I feel British.

I don’t see any need to divide up the country, and am more than comfortable having the same chance as everyone else to vote for an MP, in a system where in terms of population, Scottish constituencies are actually over represented.

I’m a right-wing capitalist, although not of the free-market type, which puts me at odds with the Government.

Anything that’d take us down a more socialist road is a big No No from me.

In the event of an independent Scotland, we’d lose important, long-standing and wholesome traditions, which would break my heart

That seems a reasonable enough explanation to me.

I support independence but I have serious concerns for an independent Scotland if the current MSPs were involved in running it. 
 

[Scary Bear]

1 hour ago, renton said:

Don't forget wholesome.

I think the poster may struggle with that one. Define a wholesome tradition…hmm?

Nah, piece of piss.

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Scary Bear