Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

4 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Abstained apparently.

I can imagine that really stuck in Baillie's craw.

I guess they actually don't think the FM breached the ministerial code... and therefore their findings were actually a lot of bollocks.

[tirso]

13 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

The way both reports have been received is evidence of how badly some people on here have lost their bearings.

The content of Hamilton, as I said yesterday, more or less says 'I won't be the person pulling the trigger. Thanks for the fee, now f**k off'. But the fact that people are punching the air in response to a report that is, again, so heavily redacted is just weird. Imagine this was Blair or Johnson; you'd be doing your nuts and taking it as straightforward proof that there's something up. Then look at his covering letter: he's telling you that even he, a supposedly independent investigator, still can't tell the whole story. It's as close as he can get to disowning the thing and thereby protecting his own reputation if things take a nasty turn in future.

(And I'll ignore the bit where he says it's 'not impossible' that Sturgeon forgot about 29 March, so I'll just conclude that she did forget; as above, 'I'm no pulling the trigger'.)

Then, after blindly celebrating a predictable whitewash, people buy straight in to Sturgeon's desperate attempt to undermine the committee report (remember when she was 'relishing' giving evidence and 'fully trusted' the process?). By any measure, the report is incredibly damning of govt and civil service process and decision-making. If it was my place of work, there would have been at least two 'terminations' and maybe a couple of 'final written warnings'. Even if you leave the possibility of an underlying criminal conspiracy to one side, it's a total clusterfuck... and the evidence that the SG dropped the original complainants once they had served their purpose just confirms the utter hypocrisy of shielding what went on behind 'the women'.

But still, as I said after her evidence, she's still not to blame... and nobody else is.

Heard that James Wolffe is trying to have Scotland renamed 'Stockholm' so that people suffering from the well-known syndrome by that name feel better... 

I'll give Sturgeon one thing: setting up not one, but two inquiries was a bit of a master-stroke. The wee game of pass-the-parcel at the end of both is kinda beautiful. Tony would be rightly proud.

But it will just buy her some more time. What happened, happened. No politician can function for long with that (and other stuff!) hanging round their necks.

Scottish politics is fucked.

I think she's been lucky with the Hamilton report only based on everything we've had in public.  But there's been over-thinkers trying to claim there was a conspiracy to put Salmond in jail out of nowhere.  There was never any evidence of this and the legitimate grievances of Salmond, Counsel and Complainers started to be mixed in with these mad claims.  As someone who actually does not believe for a minute she's told the truth as to when she knew, I'm actually glad the report absolves her.  if it had been equivocal, many would be using it to falsely prove the daft conspiracy theories.  It looks like a total cocck up and she's successfully rode it out.  You can see why they got into a fankle over these accusations, you can see how they've acted terribly during judicial review but that was only one part of the whole affair.  The second part included police and crown prosecution.  

It's time to rally round her and it's time her supporters put the olive branch out.  I think few people genuinely believed Hamilton would exonerate as he has done.  It's taken him long enough so it obviously required careful consideration.  Everyone should respect it and move on.  Can see her coming out strongly now.  

 

[Romeo]

The Tories and their supporters have embarrassed themselves again today.

If the SNP get a majority at the election I don't see how Douglas Ross could carry on.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

4 minutes ago, GiGi said:

Does it, aye? You don't trust the independent report, the farce of a committee should be taken seriously even though they leaked their own conclusions before evidence was given, called for FM resignation before evidence was given, you somehow know more about a private meeting than the participants and independent investigator, and Scottish politics is fucked because you had a bad take. Did I miss anything?

The 'independent' report is more or less what I thought it would be... where did I say that I didn't 'trust' it? I pointed out that its author went to great lengths to signal its limitations. And that people were weirdly relaxed about it being redacted to f**k.

I also said on a couple of occasions I couldn't really give a f**k what Hamilton concluded; that's not the story.

I completely agree that the committee inquiry has been a farce from beginning to end (and I specifically said a couple of weeks ago I had no idea how they would ever turn out a report). But it's been a farce not only because Fraser and Mitchell are idiots... they're partisan idiots sitting across from other partisan idiots, including the chair. The report in some areas is no more than the compromise acceptable to Andy Wightman. In other areas, though, it repeats what we already know... but you don't think a total shambles involving the civil service, govt advisers, and COPFS is any kind of problem?

As for 'knowns'... every so-called journalist and the entire political classes in Scotland know crucial bits of the story that the public don't.

So, again, you're ok with that?

Scottish politics is fucked because Scottish politics is fucked. Nothing to do with my take on it.

[GiGi]

2 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

The 'independent' report is more or less what I thought it would be... where did I say that I didn't 'trust' it? I pointed out that its author went to great lengths to signal its limitations. And that people were weirdly relaxed about it being redacted to f**k.

I also said on a couple of occasions I couldn't really give a f**k what Hamilton concluded; that's not the story.

I completely agree that the committee inquiry has been a farce from beginning to end (and I specifically said a couple of weeks ago I had no idea how they would ever turn out a report). But it's been a farce not only because Fraser and Mitchell are idiots... they're partisan idiots sitting across from other partisan idiots, including the chair. The report in some areas is no more than the compromise acceptable to Andy Wightman. In other areas, though, it repeats what we already know... but you don't think a total shambles involving the civil service, govt advisers, and COPFS is any kind of problem?

As for 'knowns'... every so-called journalist and the entire political classes in Scotland know crucial bits of the story that the public don't.

So, again, you're ok with that?

Scottish politics is fucked because Scottish politics is fucked. Nothing to do with my take on it.

The only thing I agree with you on is that there are certainly civil servants needing the punt for their handling of the original complaints.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

entire political classes in Scotland know crucial bits of the story that the public don't.

I would suggest that what they know has been filtered by the people willling to leak confidential information and not the complete truth.

For example David Davis using his parliamentary privilege to read emails completely out of context.

[madwullie]

How come Ghosts's patter has changed so markedly since last night and this morning? Has there been a wings newsletter coalescing all the bullshit meaning he now has something to say? 

[Moomintroll]

30 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

*taps the "Bring back the Heads Gone Thread" sign*

Tynie said it was fine........

[The Ghost of B A R P]

4 minutes ago, tirso said:

I think she's been lucky with the Hamilton report only based on everything we've had in public.  But there's been over-thinkers trying to claim there was a conspiracy to put Salmond in jail out of nowhere.  There was never any evidence of this and the legitimate grievances of Salmond, Counsel and Complainers started to be mixed in with these mad claims.  As someone who actually does not believe for a minute she's told the truth as to when she knew, I'm actually glad the report absolves her.  if it had been equivocal, many would be using it to falsely prove the daft conspiracy theories.  It looks like a total cocck up and she's successfully rode it out.  You can see why they got into a fankle over these accusations, you can see how they've acted terribly during judicial review but that was only one part of the whole affair.  The second part included police and crown prosecution.  

It's time to rally round her and it's time her supporters put the olive branch out.  I think few people genuinely believed Hamilton would exonerate as he has done.  It's taken him long enough so it obviously required careful consideration.  Everyone should respect it and move on.  Can see her coming out strongly now.  

 

That's a perfectly reasonable line to take, because the call on what is better for the independence movement is a purely political one.

What I don't get is your acknowledgement that she lied (she did), but then you move immediately to 'daft conspiracy theories'. Why did she lie? Why did they work so hard (and continue) to supress evidence? If Sturgeon isn't guilty, who is?

As for her supporters putting the olive branch out... I'll believe it when I see it.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, renton said:

When has that ever stopped a good purge?

It always does. If Jackie Baillie thought indyref2 was a good idea or believed Leonard should've remained regardless of what the party donors think then she would be much more likely to be punted than meaningless drivel like "being good at your job" or "not being openly corrupt in your civic duty"

1 hour ago, harry94 said:

They have always endorsed each other and are on point policy wise but I get the feeling that he knows she's a bit of an embarrassment and useless at strategies to gain popularity in national politics. I don't think he'd ever remove her or not give a cabinet seat but don't think he'd shed a tear if a fuss caused her to not take up the list seat or went to the backbenches.

She's a constituency MSP. There's a substantial amount of members who think her and Murray should be listened to above other members because "they know what it takes to defeat the SNP". I honestly think ideology and being on the same wing of the party trumps anything else. She probably had a big part in getting him elected.

38 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

 

Heard that James Wolffe is trying to have Scotland renamed 'Stockholm' so that people suffering from the well-known syndrome by that name feel better... 

 

This is terrific patter

[101]

9 minutes ago, Romeo said:

The Tories and their supporters have embarrassed themselves again today.

If the SNP get a majority at the election I don't see how Douglas Ross could carry on.

He won't give up, he would have to be removed and I'm not sure who they would get in to replace him.

[SandyCromarty]

46 minutes ago, GNU_Linux said:

I can see the Greens maybe getting a boost on account of Patrick Harvie's performances over the past couple of days doubled with the party getting more exposure than they usually get.

 

Yes Patrick Harvie was magnificent today in his summation of the disgraceful behaviour of some of the committee members,

I'm sure that this will increase the Greens profile to the Scottish public and their vote share at the election. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

25 minutes ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Glad you're enjoying yourself, duffer.

In the unlikely event that you ever have anything to say, let me know, eh?

I'll just keep ridiculing your tinfoil-hat drivel if that's all the same to you 

[The Ghost of B A R P]

5 minutes ago, GiGi said:

The only thing I agree with you on is that there are certainly civil servants needing the punt for their handling of the original complaints.

Right, so something went badly wrong... and we haven't been given a full and frank account of how it happened. Why would we be happy with that?

And are those civil servants being protected? If so, by whom? And why?

4 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said:

I would suggest that what they know has been filtered by the people willling to leak confidential information and not the complete truth.

For example David Davis using his parliamentary privilege to read emails completely out of context.

So you think it would be better for everything to be publicly aired, so we don't get an 'incomplete' picture?

3 minutes ago, madwullie said:

How come Ghosts's patter has changed so markedly since last night and this morning? Has there been a wings newsletter coalescing all the bullshit meaning he now has something to say? 

I think the beautifully named O'Kelley Isley III made a point of saying 'at least I've been consistent'.

Where has my 'patter' changed?

Just now, NotThePars said:

This is terrific patter

Thanks; much appreciated.

[Romeo]

3 minutes ago, 101 said:

He won't give up, he would have to be removed and I'm not sure who they would get in to replace him.

?

[lichtgilphead]

3 hours ago, Dawson Park Boy said:

You may well be correct regarding polling, but in the circles I move in, we’ve more or less given up on Covid restrictions.

Obviously, you need a mask to go into supermarkets but as regards socialising in houses with family and friends we are all back to normal.

Since all the old and vulnerable have now had at least one jab, what’s the point?

Things are as good as they’re going to get.

Hospitals are not busy, the case and death rates are down, what’s the problem?

I saw an interview between Andrew Neil and Lord Sumption who made the point that it should be up to individuals to make their own risk assessment. Why lockdown the young and healthy for no good reason? okay, there might be a slight spike in cases and deaths but, with excess deaths now down to zero, the acceptance of some additional deaths seems worth it to get the economy, educational and health care for other diseases back to something like normal.

You really are a f*cking dick

[Romeo]

Just now, The Ghost of B A R P said:

Right, so something went badly wrong... and we haven't been given a full and frank account of how it happened. Why would we be happy with that?

And are those civil servants being protected? If so, by whom? And why?

So you think it would be better for everything to be publicly aired, so we don't get an 'incomplete' picture?

I think the beautifully named O'Kelley Isley III made a point of saying 'at least I've been consistent'.

Where has my 'patter' changed?

Thanks; much appreciated.

You can't just keep having enquiries until you get the result you want. 

This is a once in a generation enquiry 

[The Ghost of B A R P]

4 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'll just keep ridiculing your tinfoil-hat drivel if that's all the same to you 

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

1 minute ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

So you think it would be better for everything to be publicly aired, so we don't get an 'incomplete' picture?

No I don't think it is appropriate to name people who complain about sexual misconduct in their workplace.

I think people should respect the court orders that are in place.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

Just now, Romeo said:

You can't just keep having enquiries until you get the result you want. 

This is a once in a generation enquiry 

Inquiries were never going to resolve this.

We're only at the end of Round Five, remember.