Oor Nicola Sturgeon thread.

[renton]

Just now, BawWatchin said:

The stalemate they're in with the tories is purely by design. They could seek out other routes towards the path of independence but refuse to do so. They don't want independence. They just want to be in a political battle for independence that drags on forever as it safe guards their careers at Westminster.

Call it nonsense all you like..... you'll still be making that claim 10 years down the line.

What are these routes?

[BawWatchin]

Just now, renton said:

What are these routes?

They could call on the European Court of Human Rights. Something they've made no effort to do. Or they could simply ignore the tories and hold a referendum anyway, then formally make a declaration of independence.

What they're doing right now is endless and endless suits them perfectly.

[renton]

Just now, BawWatchin said:

They could call on the European Court of Human Rights. Something they've made no effort to do. Or they could simply ignore the tories and hold a referendum anyway, then formally make a declaration of independence.

What they're doing right now is endless and endless suits them perfectly.

... and what will they be telling the ECHR? What possible force will that bring to bear?

Hold a consultative referendum by all means, but if the Tories don't fold in the face of the result, then what?

[Billy Jean King]

You will soon enough. The SNP and the Tories are playing off each other because it benefits the MPs from both parties. The tories can increase their support by looking as if they're taking a strong stand on "unionism" and the SNP can increase their support with their endless mandate mantra. Careers, high wages and lucrative expenses all secured. [emoji20]

It's all going to come out.

Surely after all this time that is not the best "bombshell" Salmond can come up with. Laughable if he does go down that route, be interesting to see what evidence he could produce to back something like that up.

[Billy Jean King]

The ECHR lol, what HR has been infringed / denied. As for the later, worked well for the Catalans, what could possibly go wrong ? You would make some strategist !

They could call on the European Court of Human Rights. Something they've made no effort to do. Or they could simply ignore the tories and hold a referendum anyway, then formally make a declaration of independence.
What they're doing right now is endless and endless suits them perfectly.

[Detournement]

2 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

The ECHR lol, what HR has been infringed / denied. As for the later, worked well for the Catalans, what could possibly go wrong ? You would make some strategist !

The referendum definitely furthered the cause of Catalan independence.

Any nationalist movement needs to exploit every opportunity to cleave people away from the status quo. The 2014 referendum as an event and the ongoing culture war is a bigger draw for Indy than any policy position.  

Edited June 9, 2020 by Detournement

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Turns out the SNP have a cozy wee deal with the tories at Westminster to ensure an independence battle that never actually ends. The plan involves the tories forever saying "no" and the SNP forever seeking out further mandates.

You read it here first. [emoji20]
Expect Salmond to drop the bomb soon enough. He's just waiting for the right moment.

That's the biggest piece of pish you've posted ever - and Christ you've posted some pish in your time here.

[DukDukGoose]

Go on @BawWatchin, let us see the blog post 

[sophia]

9 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

The stalemate they're in with the tories is purely by design. They could seek out other routes towards the path of independence but refuse to do so. They don't want independence. They just want to be in a political battle for independence that drags on forever as it safe guards their careers at Westminster.

Call it nonsense all you like..... you'll still be making that claim 10 years down the line.

You shouldn't make such predictions.

I don't make predictions and I never will.

 

Also, it's nonsense

[welshbairn]

33 minutes ago, Merkland Red said:

Go on @BawWatchin, let us see the blog post 

I couldn't possibly speculate, but...

Quote

The above figures may offer us the most generous of all the possible explanations for the SNP’s lack of any meaningful activity in the field of independence in the last few years. It may be that it simply knows it doesn’t have anywhere near the resources to do justice to an indyref campaign in the next few years, and needs to sit tight and try to somehow build up a fighting fund again.

But there’s also a less charitable view, which overlaps to some extent with that one. As we’ve discussed before, seen from the perspective of its own self-interest the current situation suits the SNP rather agreeably. It has dozens of MPs sitting at Westminster, drawing themselves nice fat salaries, expenses and gold-plated pensions in exchange for almost no practical responsibilities amid the glamour of London, and a very useful amount of much-needed cash for the party in the form of Short Money.

Its domestic hegemony at Holyrood also seems secure. It enjoys a 20-point lead over the Scottish Tories, who are near their natural ceiling of support, and Scottish Labour is withering to a complete irrelevance as anything other than a Unionist block on the Tories. The 2021 election looks like a shoo-in, and even this far out it’s hard to see where any credible challenge in 2026 might come from.

Another indyref, though, might greatly upset the applecart, whatever the outcome of it was. Another defeat could cause serious damage in all sorts of obvious ways – see the history of the Party Quebecois in Canada, which has plunged from 45% in 1994 to just 17% in 2018 after narrowly losing two independence referendums in semi-swift (15 years) succession.

But a victory would be a double-edged sword too. At a stroke the SNP would lose both a huge chunk of its income and its main reason to exist if Scotland voted Yes. It might splinter into left and right factions, and certainly the unifying force keeping together both the party and its voters – many of them currently holding their noses over various policies in the name of independence – would be gone along with the Short Money.

As a political party rather than a cause, then, independence is undeniably a massive threat to the SNP. So the last thing it needs right now, for a whole boatload of reasons, is another referendum any time soon. That silhouette may not be who you think it is.

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-betrayer/

[Cheese]

Schrödingers independence.

[DukDukGoose]

40 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I couldn't possibly speculate, but...

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-betrayer/

Oh ffs.

I'd given him more credit.

[BawWatchin]

I stand by my well informed stance. We're being taken for fools, just as we were under Labour.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I stand by my well informed stance. We're being taken for fools, just as we were under Labour.

The part about you being a fool is correct.

[NotThePars]

Wings is just recycling what loads of people have been saying on the ground for ages. Maybe news takes a bit longer to travel down to Bath these days. It's funny because a lot of what he's written there isn't incorrect (given it's not his original analysis that's probably why) but his conclusion that it's a dastardly plot by the party to fatten their wallets rather than just the inevitable outcome of a party which is led by shitebags who are too cautious to rock the boat is where his general trans induced psycho paranoia leads him.

 

It shows that there's a constituency for independence leaning voters that are concerned by the SNP's lack of movement and surely not all of them are fringe nutcases like yon Bath boy.

[Alan Stubbs]

Is Salmond getting this hot goss second hand or was he part of the big conspiracy himself?

Maybe one of the Yes Da's will check with him and let us know.

 

[BawWatchin]

37 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Wings is just recycling what loads of people have been saying on the ground for ages. Maybe news takes a bit longer to travel down to Bath these days. It's funny because a lot of what he's written there isn't incorrect (given it's not his original analysis that's probably why) but his conclusion that it's a dastardly plot by the party to fatten their wallets rather than just the inevitable outcome of a party which is led by shitebags who are too cautious to rock the boat is where his general trans induced psycho paranoia leads him.

 

It shows that there's a constituency for independence leaning voters that are concerned by the SNP's lack of movement and surely not all of them are fringe nutcases like yon Bath boy.

So is everybody responding to this pish a transphobe?

I think we all know who has lost the plot here and it isn't independence supporters.  It's the SNP MPs themselves.

[welshbairn]

So post menopausal people should no longer call themselves women?

[pandarilla]

Every new version of this debate depresses me. I genuinely want people to be comfortable in their body, and I'm happy to accommodate people's feelings.

But f**k me.

[Dons_1988]

11 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Every new version of this debate depresses me. I genuinely want people to be comfortable in their body, and I'm happy to accommodate people's feelings.

But f**k me.

Agreed.

It's not a crime to have doubts about transgender women biologically being a 'woman'. If pressed on it I probably have those doubts too.

In practice, who gives a f**k. Live and let live, it makes no difference to my life and the greater crime is anyone feeling like they can't participate in society because of their gender identity.