The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[Ralstonite]

47 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

I said it weeks ago, my biggest issue is that there's no intent or cohesive game plan in our attacking play. The tactic seems to be to hump the ball into space and hope we get a bounce.

If we were trying stuff that didn't quite work out, I'd be happy enough with that....look at the national team this week, now Scotland are never going to be a massive goalscoring side but it's as clear as the nose on your face what their attacking intent is and that they have a gameplan, they actually look cohesive going forward but lack that killer instinct.

Jack Ross and to lesser extent Oran Kearney's teams also had a game plan going forward...even at points last season under Goodwin, there was some semblance of him starting to get it. But this season, that seems to have deserted us completely.

I saw earlier on the page someone comparing it to under MacPherson but it's not even Gus tactics...Gus tactics were all about lumping it forward as well but the key difference is that we'd be trying to win second balls in dangerous areas. Our attacking intent appears to be solely from set pieces or stumbling into the penalty box and maybe trying to get a shot away. No finesse, not actual vision or intent. It's an awful, awful watch.

I sincerely hope he can find that spark as I love the guy and I do believe he's a positive influence on the club and loves being here. It's of huge concern though that something is just not clicking and the team looks shackled every week, almost scared to be expressive.

I agree. Yet there have been spells where we seem to have played really well, and created chances - that away Cup tie in Motherwell, for example.

But most of the time it is awful to watch, and my fear is that without actually experiencing the atmosphere of a live match, many fans will be turned off by what we're watching at the moment.

18 minutes ago, Coventry Saint said:

It is! Misery Hunters it's called. Well worth a go.

@MH-RD just pop my commission in the post m8.

Thanks, pal. I'll give it a go.

15 minutes ago, MH-RD said:

That’s the thing though. We may be 11th on the wage budget list but with the squad we have there should be absolutely no acceptance of 11th place in the league. We have a very good squad for the Premiership and should be pushing for top 6 - or top 4 if you listen to Tony .
We’re seriously underachieving.

Haha! Not sure whether you're being serious or not! We seem to be recruiting most of our players from the League of Ireland, nowadays. 

[MH-RD]

39 minutes ago, Ralstonite said:

Haha! Not sure whether you're being serious or not! We seem to be recruiting most of our players from the League of Ireland, nowadays. 

I am being serious. We’ve signed two players from LOI; McCarthy & McGrath both who more than impressed last season. Admittedly they haven’t hit the same heights this season so far but they’re still good players.

We signed Alnwick from Rangers who has been fantastic from day one and has produced a number of top drawer performances - particularly the game at Ibrox.

Tait, Fraser & Shaughnessy have all previously captained or played for top six premiership sides and in my opinion could still do so.

We’ve just signed Doyle-Hayes & Brandon Mason. The former a highly rated former Aston Villa academy graduate who is apparently a real coup for a club like St.Mirren and the later already looks to be a very good full back.

Connolly - who everyone has been demanding start games - has proven himself to be an exciting player and good signing already. 

Dennis is a proven English lower league goalscorer. Which is around Scottish Premiership level imo. 

That’s not mentioning most of the lads still here from last season.

We have a good squad full of potential. We just need a manager that can get the best out of them!

Edited November 15, 2020 by MH-RD

[NorthBank]

No, I didn’t. However, you can’t label us good & competitive if we can barely get the ball on target.
Our problem is that we’re aren’t good nor competitive. That’s why we’re near the foot of the table.

I said we can be. So you think we have never been good or competitive this season? We beat Queens Park so maybe that makes us good as we won?

[Ralstonite]

2 minutes ago, MH-RD said:

I am being serious. We’ve signed two players from LOI; McCarthy & McGrath both who more than impressed last season. Admittedly they haven’t hit the same heights this season so far but they’re still good players.

We signed Alnwick from Rangers who has been fantastic from day one and has produced a number of top drawer performances - particularly the game at Ibrox.

Tait, Fraser & Shaughnessy have all previously captained or played for top six premiership sides and in my opinion could still do so.

We’ve just signed Doyle-Hayes & Brandon Mason. The former a highly rated former Aston Villa academy graduate who is apparently a real coup for a club like St.Mirren and the later already looks to be a very good full back.

Connolly - who everyone has been demanding start games - has proven himself to be an exciting player and good signing already. 

Dennis is a proven English lower league goalscorer. Which is around Scottish Premiership level imo. 

That’s not mentioning most of the lads still here from last season.

We have a good squad full of potential. We just need a manager that can get the best out of them!

Alnwick was a good signing, admittedly. I suppose I haven't really given him much thought, because I really rated Hladky and just saw him as a replacement at best, in terms of quality. 

Whilst the lower half of the SPL is probably equivalent to League One and Two down south, I would argue that the likes of Hibs, Aberdeen and even Hearts are of a higher standard - as evidenced by Aberdeen's games against Burnley, and Hearts fielding Gordon, Berra and Naismith in the Championship. If we want to be challenging for the top six, we will need to bring in better players than the less-than-prolific Erwin and an average English lower league player. 

Signing unproven graduates released by big clubs shows a bit more ambition admittedly, but until I see it on the field I will reserve judgement. 

Having watched the Saints for a long-time I reserve the right to be pessimistic, and one might argue the name of your podcast suggests you share that outlook. Motherwell and Kilmarnock have been punching above their weight for years, so it can be done on our resources. We need stability, and I am willing to stick with Goodwin until the end of the season at least.

[MH-RD]

5 minutes ago, Ralstonite said:

Alnwick was a good signing, admittedly. I suppose I haven't really given him much thought, because I really rated Hladky and just saw him as a replacement at best, in terms of quality. 

Whilst the lower half of the SPL is probably equivalent to League One and Two down south, I would argue that the likes of Hibs, Aberdeen and even Hearts are of a higher standard - as evidenced by Aberdeen's games against Burnley, and Hearts fielding Gordon, Berra and Naismith in the Championship. If we want to be challenging for the top six, we will need to bring in better players than the less-than-prolific Erwin and an average English lower league player. 

Signing unproven graduates released by big clubs shows a bit more ambition admittedly, but until I see it on the field I will reserve judgement. 

Having watched the Saints for a long-time I reserve the right to be pessimistic, and one might argue the name of your podcast suggests you share that outlook. Motherwell and Kilmarnock have been punching above their weight for years, so it can be done on our resources. We need stability, and I am willing to stick with Goodwin until the end of the season at least.

Hibs and Aberdeen regularly sign players from the English lower leagues and more often than not the players flourish in this division. An average English lower league player was our top goalscorer last season and currently this season. It is our level IMO.

Of course you have the right to be pessimistic, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just giving my viewpoint in that we shouldn’t be accepting 11th place with the squad we have no matter where we’re placed in the ‘wages table’

[Ralstonite]

3 minutes ago, MH-RD said:

Hibs and Aberdeen regularly sign players from the English lower leagues and more often than not the players flourish in this division. An average English lower league player was our top goalscorer last season and currently this season. It is our level IMO.

Of course you have the right to be pessimistic, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just giving my viewpoint in that we shouldn’t be accepting 11th place with the squad we have no matter where we’re placed in the ‘wages table’

The Scottish Premiership is a strange league when compared to down south. The Old Firm are equivalent to Premiership clubs, and last season both got out of their groups in the Europa League - Celtic beating Lazio home and away. Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have budgets that are 5x ours, and IMHO could survive in the Championship down south. The rest of the league, I agree, is probably League One standard. Obika did well last season, but so far has scored two in the league this campaign - though that's partly due to the way we're playing.

With all the games in hand we have, I hoping we can improve our position. At the moment, I'd be delighted to finish tenth this season.

 

[djchapsticks]

8 hours ago, Ralstonite said:

The Scottish Premiership is a strange league when compared to down south. The Old Firm are equivalent to Premiership clubs, and last season both got out of their groups in the Europa League - Celtic beating Lazio home and away. Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs have budgets that are 5x ours, and IMHO could survive in the Championship down south. The rest of the league, I agree, is probably League One standard. Obika did well last season, but so far has scored two in the league this campaign - though that's partly due to the way we're playing.

With all the games in hand we have, I hoping we can improve our position. At the moment, I'd be delighted to finish tenth this season.

 

Everyone always goes on about the OF down south but I've always argued the piece that if you put Scottish clubs in England and factored in them also having the benefit of the TV money and budgets that clubs down there receive, there would be 2 clubs who would be Premier league regulars and another 2 or 3 who'd be regularly flirting with Premier league football.

No-one is going to tell me that clubs like Bournemouth or Watford can trouble the Premier league regularly and Aberdeen, Hibs or hilariously enough at the moment, even Hearts couldn't with English championship level money in their coffers. Edinburgh and Aberdeen would be massively attractive prospects for footballers to live in if they were playing in the English league setup.

After that, most of the top flight, factoring in budgets would certainly be lower to mid Championship and upper league 1 levels of team.

Edited November 16, 2020 by djchapsticks

[AllyM]

11 hours ago, MH-RD said:

I am being serious. We’ve signed two players from LOI; McCarthy & McGrath both who more than impressed last season. Admittedly they haven’t hit the same heights this season so far but they’re still good players.

We signed Alnwick from Rangers who has been fantastic from day one and has produced a number of top drawer performances - particularly the game at Ibrox.

Tait, Fraser & Shaughnessy have all previously captained or played for top six premiership sides and in my opinion could still do so.

We’ve just signed Doyle-Hayes & Brandon Mason. The former a highly rated former Aston Villa academy graduate who is apparently a real coup for a club like St.Mirren and the later already looks to be a very good full back.

Connolly - who everyone has been demanding start games - has proven himself to be an exciting player and good signing already. 

Dennis is a proven English lower league goalscorer. Which is around Scottish Premiership level imo. 

That’s not mentioning most of the lads still here from last season.

We have a good squad full of potential. We just need a manager that can get the best out of them!

Or a better coaching team around the manager. I realised reading this thread that I couldn't remember who the assistant manager was - had to go and look him up. That's not a good sign.

[Ric]

If I had to give my 2 cents to this, although anyone reading my previous comments will likely know where I stand with this, it would be that in terms of romance, Goodwin succeeding would put a smile on most people's faces. There'll always be some who never fancied him as manager and continue to hold that opinion - that's pretty standard no matter who is in the job.

Romance, however, doesn't win games.

There is no doubting that we have a team, on paper, that should be in a better position than we are now. Yes there are mitigating circumstances - some of our own making, some not - which have led to a very intermittent season (including pre-season) but the longer the season goes on and the fact that many of these circumstances are not solely upon us dilutes the effectiveness they are as a defence for our current league position.

For me, I'm just a little disappointed we didn't stick with a consistent formation. I've never been a fan of 3 at the back and don't necessarily believe we have the players that suit it. Clarke took a lot of games to get Scotland performing with that setup (and I'll be honest I still don't think it's ideal) and the national side is hardly prolific in terms of goals and chances created so I'm not sure why Goodwin sees that as a way forward.

Sure we need to score goals, sure we need to make more chances to score goals, I'm just not convinced the formation we are using just now will deliver that and, if given the choice, would rather have low scoring draws with the occasional win than some of the stuff we've seen on the park recently. Will it turn around if he persists with the 3? Who knows. He could argue he's now being able to field a full strength team and has stopped the back to back losses and qualified for the next round of the cup, but if there isn't an upturn in our league position within the next month or so I feel the BoD might turn a bit trigger happy.

[Coventry Saint]

22 hours ago, Ric said:

I've never been a fan of 3 at the back and don't necessarily believe we have the players that suit it. Clarke took a lot of games to get Scotland performing with that setup (and I'll be honest I still don't think it's ideal) and the national side is hardly prolific in terms of goals and chances created so I'm not sure why Goodwin sees that as a way forward.

I think 3-5-2 is one of those that always looks good on paper. Two strikers, packed midfield, bit of width... what's not to like? But it rarely works in practice. I love him to bits but Richard Tait should not be our main attacking outlet, as he was against United. It's too easy to pin the wing-backs back, turning it into a 5-3-2, with zero attacking width.

As much as the league cup doesn't really matter, I think the game against Aberdeen will be a good progress test. That cup quarter final against them was my nomination for most disappointing game last season; we very much looked like this season's St Mirren. I want to at least lay a glove on them (Ethan's wonderstrike put a gloss on the league game).

Edited November 17, 2020 by Coventry Saint

[ZingaliMan]

Sacking Goodwin would be nuts what are we a basket case of a club. The guy is still in his 30's has had more than his fare share of problems to get around. Personally for me he has brought in some decent players. If Queens Park was disappointing it should not be a surprise their record at Hampden against us is not too bad. 

[Munoz]

1 hour ago, Coventry Saint said:

I think 3-5-2 is one of those that always looks good on paper. Two strikers, packed midfield, bit of width... what's not to like? But it rarely works in practice. I love him to bits but Richard Tait should not be our main attacking outlet, as he was against United. It's too easy to pin the wing-backs back, turning it into a 5-3-2, with zero attacking width.

As much as the league cup doesn't really matter, I think the game against Aberdeen will be a good progress test. That cup quarter final against them was my nomination for most disappointing game last season; we very much looked like this season's St Mirren. I want to at least lay a glove on them (Ethan's wonderstrike put a gloss on the league came).

I thought the Aberdeen away league game was probably our best performance of this season to date. We at least competed for most of the match, and were very unfortunate not to get at least a point. 

[Coventry Saint]

21 minutes ago, Munoz said:

I thought the Aberdeen away league game was probably our best performance of this season to date. We at least competed for most of the match, and were very unfortunate not to get at least a point. 

Or: we scored a worldy and then competed in terms of possession without ever really looking like scoring again. I agree, it was a decent performance, but the same issues in that game plagued the Dundee United game, which I would also file under 'basically good, but largely toothless'.

[monthelie']

21 hours ago, Coventry Saint said:

It is! Misery Hunters it's called. Well worth a go.

@MH-RD just pop my commission in the post m8.

When you mentioned misery hunters, I thought you had ventured on to b&wa.

[Ralstonite]

5 hours ago, monthelie' said:

When you mentioned misery hunters, I thought you had ventured on to b&wa.

It is a very bizarre forum, that place! It's full of characters, half of which I am convinced are not even St. Mirren supporters. They just spend their time moaning, or insulting one another in the most childish ways. Then there's Shull... 

[sergie's no1 fan]

Sacking Goodwin would be nuts what are we a basket case of a club. The guy is still in his 30's has had more than his fare share of problems to get around. Personally for me he has brought in some decent players. If Queens Park was disappointing it should not be a surprise their record at Hampden against us is not too bad. 

Last season we had one of the best discipline records in the Division.

However this season we have picked up 3/4 red cards? All of them unnecessary. That has got to be alarming.

Also where does everyone stand on the striker situation? I know Dennis hasn't had much of a chance but from what I can see Obika should be our first choice striker.

I know there will be certain games when Erwin would be handier as a lone striker target man, but Obika is our biggest goal threat.

[Coventry Saint]

50 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

Last season we had one of the best discipline records in the Division.

However this season we have picked up 3/4 red cards? All of them unnecessary. That has got to be alarming.

Also where does everyone stand on the striker situation? I know Dennis hasn't had much of a chance but from what I can see Obika should be our first choice striker.

I know there will be certain games when Erwin would be handier as a lone striker target man, but Obika is our biggest goal threat.

I was all up for giving the others a chance, but Obika has to be our first choice now. Dennis showed flashes of good movement before his injury, but I've seen very little since to justify starting him.

In order, for the striking positions, I'd go: Obika > Erwin > Dennis > Jamie Langfield > Junior Morias.

Spoiler

I'm just being a dick: it's clear Morias is no longer considered a striker by anyone at the club. I do actually think he brings something in terms of energy and harassment to the side, but he should only ever be doing that from the bench.

 

[glenburn bud]

23 hours ago, Coventry Saint said:

I was all up for giving the others a chance, but Obika has to be our first choice now. Dennis showed flashes of good movement before his injury, but I've seen very little since to justify starting him.

In order, for the striking positions, I'd go: Obika > Erwin > Dennis > Jamie Langfield > Junior Morias.

  Hide contents

I'm just being a dick: it's clear Morias is no longer considered a striker by anyone at the club. I do actually think he brings something in terms of energy and harassment to the side, but he should only ever be doing that from the bench.

 

Morias will probably come good at some point. Sadly for us it’s more likely to happen when he’s back playing for a league 1or 2 club down south.

I’ve tried to give him the benefit of doubt, but I’ve now given up on that one as a lost cause.

[ZingaliMan]

Livie charging £20 for a live stream is taking the piss. Part of me  does not want too pay that on principle.  Part of me wants to watch the game. mmmmm ? 

[big al]

9 minutes ago, ZingaliMan said:

Livie charging £20 for a live stream is taking the piss. Part of me  does not want too pay that on principle.  Part of me wants to watch the game. mmmmm ? 

£20 is extortionate!

make a stand on that