Junior football, what is the future?

[Ginaro]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/lower-leagues/majority-of-junior-clubs-back-motion-to-join-sfa-pyramid-system-1-4713841

Quote

Johnston admits he was surprised to hear of Bonnyrigg’s wish to leave the Junior game last week, with Premier League Dalkeith Thistle having previously expressed their wish to join the East of Scotland League.

He continued: “That was a surprise to us. I’m finding it hard to follow the logic of Bonnyrigg. They could have been playing in and winning the Scottish Junior Cup and participating in the Scottish senior cup. I haven’t heard for definite from Bonnyrigg that they have left, so until that happens I don’t know. The Lothian areas are predominantly Junior country so if they do decide to go, I’ll be surprised.

“We don’t want to lose any of our clubs whether they are big or small. We want to retain our numbers as best we can and give them a level of football that they’ll find hard to get elsewhere. I think the Junior game is quite unique.

“If they want to move we’ll wish them well, but we’d much rather they didn’t. There’s a lot of clubs that will never be able to finance club licensing, and that’s some of the bigger clubs. Finance is a major issue, but if that is the will of the clubs, we’ll go.”

[Marshmallo]

50 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said:

As it stands - but things are clearly changing, so hopefully some piogress for Talbot now.

Not sure where exactly Lok fall down at present but obviously our pish toilet facilities are a starting point!

A common sense approach of letting attendees use Loks should be applied.

[kefc]

10 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/lower-leagues/majority-of-junior-clubs-back-motion-to-join-sfa-pyramid-system-1-4713841

With no disrespect how can Threave Rovers, Newton Stewart, Burntisland, Coldstream and every club in the HL and LL manage to get licenced and well supported Junior clubs in big towns can’t.

[drs]

The deluded ramblings of someone who came too late and stayed too long. If he cant understand why a club like Bonnyrigg would give up 1 year of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup for the prospect of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON then I despair. The Junior Cup is a bauble compared to the pot of gold that could await anyone moving to the Pyramid. 

[oldandround]

39 minutes ago, drs said:

The deluded ramblings of someone who came too late and stayed too long. If he cant understand why a club like Bonnyrigg would give up 1 year of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup for the prospect of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON then I despair. The Junior Cup is a bauble compared to the pot of gold that could await anyone moving to the Pyramid. 

This season colville Park, the amateur team earned £9000 from playing 3 rounds of the scottish cup after gaining entry from winning the scottish amateur cup last season.  Yes 9K!  

As I understand it the scottish junior cup winners get £8k prize money.  

And people question why bother entering the pyramid?

Its all about the money!

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, drs said:

The deluded ramblings of someone who came too late and stayed too long. If he cant understand why a club like Bonnyrigg would give up 1 year of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup for the prospect of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON then I despair. The Junior Cup is a bauble compared to the pot of gold that could await anyone moving to the Pyramid. 

There is every reason to question aspects of the way Junior football has been run. However, some of the criticism levelled at TJ is OTT as he only went by the decision of member clubs, you can almost visualize the baying mob. Also the glee with which some embrace the predicted downfall of the Juniors is quite disconcerting. Comments about the Junior Cup becoming West Cup etc. Just to put some perspective, the Scottish Junior Cup an established prestigious tournament with a very proud history which the rest of non league football never had. It should be kept expanded and promoted within all the change, something that the EOSL, SOSL, LL, or HL, if only they would see, should concede and be part of. Only one aspect in the whole saga, but I feel could be make or break for the whole kit and caboodle.

[oldandround]

2 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

There is every reason to question aspects of the way Junior football has been run. However, some of the criticism levelled at TJ is OTT as he only went by the decision of member clubs, you can almost visualize the baying mob. Also the glee with which some embrace the predicted downfall of the Juniors is quite disconcerting. Comments about the Junior Cup becoming West Cup etc. Just to put some perspective, the Scottish Junior Cup an established prestigious tournament with a very proud history which the rest of non league football never had. It should be kept expanded and promoted within all the change, something that the EOSL, SOSL, LL, or HL, if only they would see, should concede and be part of. Only one aspect in the whole saga, but I feel could be make or break for the whole kit and caboodle.

I actually agree with part of this.  The "junior" cup should be changed into the trophy where all clubs at tier 5 and below take part.   Once the juniors are folded into the SFA pyramid and the SJFA is disbanded of course. 

[Glenconner]

16 minutes ago, oldandround said:

This season colville Park, the amateur team earned £9000 from playing 3 rounds of the scottish cup after gaining entry from winning the scottish amateur cup last season.  Yes 9K!  

As I understand it the scottish junior cup winners get £8k prize money.  

And people question why bother entering the pyramid?

Its all about the money!

Think it's a great idea to allow all 160 Junior clubs into the Scottish Cup. £3000 a round you say.

[GLENAFTON93]

55 minutes ago, drs said:

The deluded ramblings of someone who came too late and stayed too long. If he cant understand why a club like Bonnyrigg would give up 1 year of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup for the prospect of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON then I despair. The Junior Cup is a bauble compared to the pot of gold that could await anyone moving to the Pyramid. 

Your description of the Junior Cup being a bauble is an undeserved description of our premier trophy, the history and names on the cup deserve more respect than you have dished out.

[Auld Heid]

5 minutes ago, Isabel Goudie said:

There is every reason to question aspects of the way Junior football has been run. However, some of the criticism levelled at TJ is OTT as he only went by the decision of member clubs, you can almost visualize the baying mob. Also the glee with which some embrace the predicted downfall of the Juniors is quite disconcerting. Comments about the Junior Cup becoming West Cup etc. Just to put some perspective, the Scottish Junior Cup an established prestigious tournament with a very proud history which the rest of non league football never had. It should be kept expanded and promoted within all the change, something that the EOSL, SOSL, LL, or HL, if only they would see, should concede and be part of. Only one aspect in the whole saga, but I feel could be make or break for the whole kit and caboodle.

TJ  the link between juniors and senior, who sits on several highly influential committees.  When member clubs looked for leadership there was none, now the horse has bolted he is trying to dictate terms that are unlikely to be acceptable to other associations.  When his actions fail - he will point fingers at everyone else.

 The Junior Cup was a prestigious tournament in 2000 where the prize money was exactly the same as today - only difference it's not being paid via a sponsor as there is none again this year.  Clearly not as prestigious as it once was - either that or it's not being marketed well by TJ.

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, oldandround said:

I actually agree with part of this.  The "junior" cup should be changed into the trophy where all clubs at tier 5 and below take part.   Once the juniors are folded into the SFA pyramid and the SJFA is disbanded of course. 

If you are actually serious it does make sense, but due to respect for a an old, established and highly respected tournament the name should stay in tact as testimony to the heritage.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Auld Heid said:

TJ  the link between juniors and senior, who sits on several highly influential committees.  When member clubs looked for leadership there was none, now the horse has bolted he is trying to dictate terms that are unlikely to be acceptable to other associations.  When his actions fail - he will point fingers at everyone else.

 The Junior Cup was a prestigious tournament in 2000 where the prize money was exactly the same as today - only difference it's not being paid via a sponsor as there is none again this year.  Clearly not as prestigious as it once was - either that or it's not being marketed well by TJ.

 

Prestige doesn't need money, and money doesn't necessarily create prestige. I agree it should be better sponsored and marketed, it could be especially if it was developed and expanded, but in order to retain prestige, it must keep the name.

[TheLad]

The deluded ramblings of someone who came too late and stayed too long. If he cant understand why a club like Bonnyrigg would give up 1 year of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup for the prospect of guaranteed entry into the Scottish Cup EVERY SINGLE SEASON then I despair. The Junior Cup is a bauble compared to the pot of gold that could await anyone moving to the Pyramid. 

Not even looking at monetary gains from Junior Cup, it simply isn't as big a deal as it used to be.

[TheLad]

Your description of the Junior Cup being a bauble is an undeserved description of our premier trophy, the history and names on the cup deserve more respect than you have dished out.

This whole debate isn't about the history, it's about the future. Those who try to grasp onto the past, will be left there.

[drs]

33 minutes ago, GLENAFTON93 said:

Your description of the Junior Cup being a bauble is an undeserved description of our premier trophy, the history and names on the cup deserve more respect than you have dished out.

Did you actually read what I said?  You need to dry your eyes and see what people have said rather than what you think they have said.

[Robert James]

16 hours ago, lithgierose said:

Clubs in the junior leagues that are licensed should be firing in applications the now.

* JUNIOR Licence holders:

Banks O'Dee  : Their President/Chairman has recently issued a statement stating that his club no longer wishes to join the HFL, even though a vacancy will arise if ambitious Cove Rangers win the SPFL play-offs (its new ground is currently under construction, and will be completed before the start of the 2018/19 season)

Girvan : Joint members of the SFA & SJFA could rejoin the SoSL where the club was a former Member. Has not shown any intention of doing so despite being  licensed

Linlithgow :  also holds an SFA licence, but has consistently given the impression that it wishes to remain in Junior league football, and doesn't need to move to the 'senior' pyramid, as like  Banks O'Dee and Girvan, it holds 'historic' rights to enter the Scottish Cup

* OTHER Licence holders :

Golspie Sutherland : plays in the North Caledonian League, and would find the costs and amount of travelling, too daunting. Also, GS doesn't have floodlights, which is a requirement in the Highland League

Glasgow University : would consider joining the pyramid, but only if there was a suitable  West 'feeder' league 

Wigtown & Bladnoch : currently taking a year out from the SoSL, but its SFA licence is still in date (apparently). Its Chairman has said that it will apply to rejoin the SoSL for 2018/19. The closing date for Applications is 31/3/18.

 

 

[Goalie Hamish]

There is every reason to question aspects of the way Junior football has been run. However, some of the criticism levelled at TJ is OTT as he only went by the decision of member clubs, you can almost visualize the baying mob. Also the glee with which some embrace the predicted downfall of the Juniors is quite disconcerting. Comments about the Junior Cup becoming West Cup etc. Just to put some perspective, the Scottish Junior Cup an established prestigious tournament with a very proud history which the rest of non league football never had. It should be kept expanded and promoted within all the change, something that the EOSL, SOSL, LL, or HL, if only they would see, should concede and be part of. Only one aspect in the whole saga, but I feel could be make or break for the whole kit and caboodle.

Isn't TJ paid very well to show some leadership and where was the leadership when the Pyramid was formed? Guy is a charlatan. The SJFA should be fully disbanded.

[oldandround]

34 minutes ago, Glenconner said:

Think it's a great idea to allow all 160 Junior clubs into the Scottish Cup. £3000 a round you say.

Once you join the pyramid and get a licence, sure.

So thats only an extra 3 if you were all to jump next season.

 However its only £3k from round one.  If there are loads of teams getting a licence, then they would reintroduce qualifying rounds, just like in the English FA cup.  Its only from the 1st round proper that the prize money would be payable.

[GLENAFTON93]

History or not my point was about the bauble description, but again any excuse to have a go.

[Goalie Hamish]

The Junior Cup should be gracefully retired and a new all encompassing non league trophy instituted. Keeping the name Junior Cup is clearly ludicrous.