Junior football, what is the future?

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, santheman said:

...Thats as near a closed shop as you’re going to get.

That was clearly the expected outcome, but Cove Rangers annihilating Berwick Rangers with League One level talent over two legs last year threw the cat in amongst the pigeons in a big way. The League Two clubs knocked back a temporary 14-10-10-10 and insisted on 14-14-14 because they knew Kelty and Brora would be too hot to handle.

There will be more clubs like that following in their footsteps. Darvel and Hurlford come to mind in the west, before you get into the Bonnyrigg and Talbot type clubs that will be able to do it based on significant fan support and lucrative cup runs.

[Dev]

10 hours ago, craigkillie said:

How can Brechin not appear in a match when they don't even know who their opponents are?

Maybe it goes something along the lines of:

"The League 2 clubs back up their Chairman/Brechin City Chairman by calling "Null-and-Void". If they had selected Average Points Per Game then that decision would have identified a bottom placed club i.e. Brechin City (as above). That would mean that the SPFL had a bottom of the 42 club to nominate for the Play-Off with the winner of the Brora/Kelty play-off.  The rules of the SPFL specify that it has to nominate the 42nd club for the end of season "fight for life". "

Is it too difficult to understand that said League 2 Chairman isn't so daft as to let that happen?

The strangest thing about this is the fact that the majority of League 2 clubs allowed themselves to be dictated to by the Chairman of the worst-performing club in the division. A club which, surely, needs to look at where they are and find a replacement Chairman pronto 'cause the next season is heading their way - eventually.

[craigkillie]

League 2 was decided on average points per game, and Brechin did finish bottom. That doesn't take away from the fact that it's impossible to punish a team for not turning up to a match when they have no match to turn up for.

[Burnieman]

19 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

League 2 was decided on average points per game, and Brechin did finish bottom. That doesn't take away from the fact that it's impossible to punish a team for not turning up to a match when they have no match to turn up for.

.....yet.  Just like the Scottish Cup is being completed next season (maybe next year), the SFA can make arrangements for the SPFL/HL/LL play-off to take place before the start of next season.  It's their play-off competition, not the SPFL's, and if they fail to put up a team then that's not Kelty or Brora's issue.

Perhaps due to Covid restrictions, they can make it two one-off games to get it played, both at the same neutral venue.  If we had any sort of leadership, solutions would be found.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Burnieman

[Marshmallo]

I'm sure Brora/Kelty would agree to a coin toss if need be to get one of them to the game. The loser wouldn't be any worse off than they are just now.

It's all contention of course but I reckon if there was an automatic relegation spot from League Two then Brechin still would have been spared.

[Marten]

26 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

.....yet.  Just like the Scottish Cup is being completed next season (maybe next year), the SFA can make arrangements for the SPFL/HL/LL play-off to take place before the start of next season.  It's their play-off competition, not the SPFL's, and if they fail to put up a team then that's not Kelty or Brora's issue.

Perhaps due to Covid restrictions, they can make it two one-off games to get it played, both at the same neutral venue.  If we had any sort of leadership, solutions would be found.

But is that really practical? Kelty, Brora and Brechin would be in uncertainty until right before the start of next season about whether or not they'd be in the SPFL. They can't really plan for the season ahead until they know where they will play.

[Burnieman]

But is that really practical? Kelty, Brora and Brechin would be in uncertainty until right before the start of next season about whether or not they'd be in the SPFL. They can't really plan for the season ahead until they know where they will play.

I'm sure Kelty and Brora wont mind.

 

With the Premiership starting in August you could stage it end of that month using a Premier clubs facilities. I doubt L2 will start anything before October.

 

Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

[Marten]

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

7 minutes ago, Marten said:

But is that really practical? Kelty, Brora and Brechin would be in uncertainty until right before the start of next season about whether or not they'd be in the SPFL. They can't really plan for the season ahead until they know where they will play.

I'm sure Kelty and Brora wont mind.

And how do Brechin plan for the season ahead? They could end up in the HL or in the SPFL, quite a big difference in budget and planning. I'm a big advocate of automatic relegation but that is not in place, a play-off before the start of the season is just not practical. The only solution would be to promote both Kelty and Brora but that's been voted down. I feel for both, but I can't see how the issue gets resolved now.

[Burnieman]

And how do Brechin plan for the season ahead? They could end up in the HL or in the SPFL, quite a big difference in budget and planning. I'm a big advocate of automatic relegation but that is not in place, a play-off before the start of the season is just not practical. The only solution would be to promote both Kelty and Brora but that's been voted down. I feel for both, but I can't see how the issue gets resolved now.

You play the games in August, and L2 will kick off, well, maybe October or maybe January. Plenty of time to agree budgets based on outcome. The priority should be doing what is right and fair.

The problem with Scottish football is that it focuses on what it can't or doesn't want to do rather than what it can.

[santheman]

23 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

I'm sure Kelty and Brora wont mind.

 

With the Premiership starting in August you could stage it end of that month using a Premier clubs facilities. I doubt L2 will start anything before October.

 

Where there is a will, there is a way.

 

There’s probably a will on the side of Kelty and Brora but definitely none from the SPFL 

It’s  dog eat dog out there at the moment and self preservation is prevailing. You can’t blame clubs for that I suppose even if it means they’re screwing other clubs.

I would like to think that rules are being changed through all the Leagues to include provision for procedures in the event of a season being curtailed so that everyone is clear about what happens as this situation could very well happen again.

[FairWeatherFan]

20 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

You play the games in August, and L2 will kick off, well, maybe October or maybe January. Plenty of time to agree budgets based on outcome. The priority should be doing what is right and fair.

The problem with Scottish football is that it focuses on what it can't or doesn't want to do rather than what it can.

If they're playing games in August, why is the season starting in October or January?

[Burnieman]

If they're playing games in August, why is the season starting in October or January? [emoji848]

Premiership will start in August, Championship October, no idea about L1 or L2. The opportunity is there to stage these play-offs in August using a neutral Premiership venue, giving plenty of time before the new seasons starts for any of these clubs.

[Jerry Macguire]

22 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If they're playing games in August, why is the season starting in October or January?

Premiership will start in August, Championship October, no idea about L1 or L2. The opportunity is there to stage these play-offs in August using a neutral Premiership venue, giving plenty of time before the new seasons starts for any of these clubs.

And instead of playing 4 matches reduce it down to 2. What's so hard about that? Keep in mind the games don't need to be played in August, not if L2 isnt due to start until October at the earliest. 

 

[Burnieman]

51 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

And instead of playing 4 matches reduce it down to 2. What's so hard about that? Keep in mind the games don't need to be played in August, not if L2 isnt due to start until October at the earliest. 

 

Two one-off games on neutral ground.  If it's good enough to complete the Champions League and Europa League, then I suspect it will do in this case as well.

[AlanCamelonfan]

28 minutes ago, NCAC said:

Tom Johnson and junior football will be sitting back with wry smile .

The senior game has well and truly shown itself up to levels far beyond any levels of incompetence the junior grade could come up with.

People were warned about all the flaws of any kind of pyramid in scotland and the attitudes of long established senior clubs yet still ploughed on regardless. 

Things will only get worse the so called pyramid will become even more diluted in full members rights and money and opportunities leaving the majority of junior clubs feeling empty and bemused and wondering what the hell they have become in effect irrelevant bottom feeders in one of the worst national associations in europe instead of what they were a different grade who were masters of own destiny that just needed fresh people involved to make it a very appealing alternative to the monstrosity that is senior football. 

Yeh It really hasn't. If you are going to scrape the bottom of the barrel with this as evidence against the pyramid we are in an epidemic incase u havent looked out the window yet

[FairWeatherFan]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

3 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

If they're playing games in August, why is the season starting in October or January?

Premiership will start in August, Championship October, no idea about L1 or L2. The opportunity is there to stage these play-offs in August using a neutral Premiership venue, giving plenty of time before the new seasons starts for any of these clubs.

 

59 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

And instead of playing 4 matches reduce it down to 2. What's so hard about that? Keep in mind the games don't need to be played in August, not if L2 isnt due to start until October at the earliest. 

 

So the competition has been stripped down from two-two legged ties where home field advantage is given to the SPFL side in the second leg, to two neutral site games. Since a Premiership venue has been suggested that means Aberdeen. Which may well suit Brora but will mean Kelty & Brechin having to travel up. Then if Kelty wins presumably staying on the next 3 days there in quarantine to avoid another round of testing. That means time off work.

Costs of testing, accomodation, bonuses (just appearance, goal type bonuses without factoring in win & promotion bonuses that they'd presumably be happy to pay). You've then got to factor in players will have lapsed contracts.

Do teams get to sign new players during this period? In which case clubs with the biggest cheque book can win out.

What happens if x number of players test positive following testing?

Players prioritise their family life or primary income job over the play-off games?

How much training time is given since clubs haven't played any competitive games in over 3 months?

Instead of the SPFL, LL, HL putting plans in place following this week when I believe the SFA AGM is meant to be. They've got to come up with different plans not knowing which one can take place until these playoff games take place. HL at 17 with Brora in it, HL at 17 with Brechin it or an 18 team league due to derby games/midweek games have to be reconsidered due to the difference between Brora v Brechin. LL 16 or 17 which technically has a knock on effect to the EoS & WoS in how they manage promotion & relegation rules for 2020-21. The SPFL probably won't care but you'd like to think they would try avoid a Brora v Stranraer possibility.

[parsforlife]

So the clubs are expected to either A) pay their 2019-2020 squad through until August and then make decisions on what to do for 20-21 after the games for October and go and sign another squad.

Or do they release their players as normal, sign and train a full squad just for these games, release that squad and start again?

 

[Jerry Macguire]

4 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

 

So the competition has been stripped down from two-two legged ties where home field advantage is given to the SPFL side in the second leg, to two neutral site games. Since a Premiership venue has been suggested that means Aberdeen. Which may well suit Brora but will mean Kelty & Brechin having to travel up. Then if Kelty wins presumably staying on the next 3 days there in quarantine to avoid another round of testing. That means time off work.

Costs of testing, accomodation, bonuses (just appearance, goal type bonuses without factoring in win & promotion bonuses that they'd presumably be happy to pay). You've then got to factor in players will have lapsed contracts.

Do teams get to sign new players during this period? In which case clubs with the biggest cheque book can win out.

What happens if x number of players test positive following testing?

Players prioritise their family life or primary income job over the play-off games?

How much training time is given since clubs haven't played any competitive games in over 3 months?

Instead of the SPFL, LL, HL putting plans in place following this week when I believe the SFA AGM is meant to be. They've got to come up with different plans not knowing which one can take place until these playoff games take place. HL at 17 with Brora in it, HL at 17 with Brechin it or an 18 team league due to derby games/midweek games have to be reconsidered due to the difference between Brora v Brechin. LL 16 or 17 which technically has a knock on effect to the EoS & WoS in how they manage promotion & relegation rules for 2020-21. The SPFL probably won't care but you'd like to think they would try avoid a Brora v Stranraer possibility.

I bet your impossible to buy for come birthdays and Christmas. 

[FairWeatherFan]

5 minutes ago, Jerry Macguire said:

I bet your impossible to buy for come birthdays and Christmas. 

Actually i'm really easy to buy for I don't have to come up with a series of lists depending on a multitude of factors outwith my control.

[FairWeatherFan]

18 minutes ago, gogsy said:

Tannadice? McDiarmid Park?

From the Kelty v Brora perspective it skewed to much in Kelty's favour to me.