velo army Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 This seems to be a topic brought up by the high-heid-yins and the BBC, although it's been a regular topic among my pals/cousins and I for a while. I'm for it. The season, as it stands, is a reflection of the school year, which isn't hugely relevant to our pros. It's also harmful to Euro participation as far as I can see. I want us competing when the weather is best and the days are longest. Hell, how many of us wouldn't rather go out and watch a midweek game in July than February? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illgresi Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 It's a very tough question, which has its' pros and cons. The main problem, imo, is the fickle nature of the Scottish football fan. Big change is always met with vehement, yet utterly unfounded opposition. Well, at least that's Dons fans anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Nah.Just nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I'm very much all for it but it's pretty much a personal decision that I'd prefer to watch football in generally more clement weather. There are pros and cons as to how it would affect the quality/marketability of the game etc. but not having to put on about 5 layers before heading to a game is the big one for me. If we had an away game up at, say, Arbroath in December I probably wouldn't bother. In July I'd almost certainly go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I wrote this for the Terrace Podcast a couple of years back, and I think most of it is still true. It is, of course, possible to switch to summer football, but I think that a lot of the supposed benefits wouldn't materialise quite as expected. Terrace Podcast link Every single Scottish football summer is pretty much the same. Every single fan in the country frantically searches the internet for information about a guy who has arrived on a one-year deal from the Croatian second division. Players go on holiday, and then spend their time on social media letting us know how much they’re enjoying #marbs. A couple of weeks later the same players moan about how hard pre-season is (ever made the connection, lads?). And, of course, it wouldn’t be summer without a debate about the future of Scottish football. This year, the hot topic was whether we should switch to summer football, a change which would of course invalidate the entire first paragraph of this article. A switch to summer football has backing in many quarters of the Scottish game. A recent BBC survey showed a number of SPFL clubs were open to exploring the idea, and Motherwell general manager Alan Burrows has been one of the most vocal advocates of a switch. A quick glance at football forums and social media will show that many supporters are also keen on the idea. A number of compelling arguments can be made for the change, but ultimately I think there are glaring differences between what people expect from “summer football”, and what it’s actually possible to deliver. First of all, it’s worth pointing out that “summer football” means different things to different people. My impression is that most people are talking about a season which roughly follows the calendar year, eg from March to November, while a few may be envisaging an elongation of the current season structure. I’m going to focus on the first of those two definitions, and look at whether we could move alongside the likes of Ireland, Sweden and Norway in playing a calendar year season. Much of the argument centres round the weather. If we want to encourage more fans to games then we should play when it’s warmer rather than having everyone sitting around freezing their balls off in the middle of winter. The overall premise is pretty hard to disagree with, but it can sometimes be easy to forget that some people are interested in things other than football. On a cold Saturday in winter, football pretty much has the market sewn up, with the only other alternatives being the pub, the shops or the cinema. But in the summer, there are many more competing alternatives; even just something like sitting in a beer garden might be more appealing. The summer also has a number of other sporting distractions for people; the likes of Wimbledon and Open Championship are staples of the UK sporting summer, and we have a major football championship every other year. There are other events away from sport too – how many football fans go to T in the Park each year, for example? It’s also the time of year where most people go on holiday, something that extends to the players too. A switch to summer football would affect every player in the country, including part-timers, given that the whole pyramid would have to change in order to facilitate promotion and relegation. It’s therefore by no means a given that crowds would improve after a switch to the summer. Indeed crowds in Ireland are slightly lower now than they were when they switched in 2003. An even more crucial issue, for the Premiership at least, is the UEFA calendar. Top flight matches cannot be scheduled on the same day as any UEFA match dates – which means that every single Champions League and Europa League night is off limits. Given that the Champions League plays on Tuesday and Wednesday, and the Europa League on Thursday, that essentially rules out midweek fixtures on any of those weeks. That immediately kills off 20 (TWENTY!) midweeks. There are also five international double headers which eliminate more dates (we could technically play through these, but many top flight clubs would have players away). The crucial problem with this is the timing of those midweeks. Both tournaments get through four qualifying rounds in July and August, which means that eight midweeks are immediately off the table. Immediately, your summer season can barely schedule any midweek fixtures; a potential 2016 season would only have one midweek fixture date available between 25th June and 25th September. So you can forget about those mythical weeknights sitting under the sun watching the Premiership. The current winter season has no such issue – from early December to late February every single date is available. To illustrate this, I've put together a hypothetical 2016 calendar (NOTE: this is no longer online) I should note that my calendar doesn’t have any games scheduled during Euro 2016. Technically clubs could play during the tournament, but some clubs may have players playing in the tournament, particularly with the expansion to 24 teams. If Scotland are one of those 24 teams in France, then I doubt many folk would be paying a great deal of attention to Scottish Premiership matches going on at the same time. Even if we allow the Scottish Cup and League Cup semis and finals to be “doubled up” with league weekends, and allow Round 2 of the League Cup to be played on a UEFA date (as it is currently), the minimum number of matchdays needed for the Scottish Premiership clubs under the current structure is 45. We have 38 league games, 3 Scottish Cup ties (R4, R5 and QF), 2 League Cup ties (R3, R4) and the play-off final. There are 61 available matchdays in 2016, but 17 of those are in December and January. Immediately, we have a major problem. Our “summer football” season would have to either start in late January or finish in early December. Of course, a few minor tweaks might be possible, but the dream of playing from March to November doesn’t look remotely feasible. There are only 38 matchdays available in that period, so we’d have to find 7 extra dates from somewhere. This doesn’t mean that summer football isn’t possible. We could reduce the number of games played in the season and/or get rid of one of the cups. Sweden and Norway both operate with a 16 team top flight and just one cup competition. This change would come at a financial cost to clubs though. Moving from a 12 team league with 38 games to, for example, a 16 team league with 30 games, would see the number of home games reduced by over 25%, and it’s unlikely attendances would increase by anything like that amount. Any move which costs clubs money is unlikely to be met with much excitement at the SPFL. Another key argument in favour of summer football is that it could hand our clubs an advantage in European competition by sending them into the qualifiers “match ready”. The flip side of this is that later on in their campaigns, our clubs could potentially be playing crucial group stage matches a few weeks after the season has finished. The switch hasn’t benefited European performances for Irish clubs – they were 39th in the UEFA coefficient table in 2003, and are now 40th. There has also been very little thought given to the potential logistical issues of finishing the season just as the worst of the weather is starting to set in. During a winter season, if a game gets called off in November it’s no big deal, because it can be caught up later in the season. But if we’re playing a summer calendar, then there is no “later in the season”. Potentially you could have a situation where the last game of the season is called off, and we have to extend the season to fit the game in. In an extreme situation, a club might have an unplayable pitch for a long period (eg Brechin in 2013), meaning the season can’t be finished for weeks. A move to summer football would quite possibly be the biggest change Scottish football has ever undertaken, and it is therefore hugely important that all of the facts are brought to the table to allow people to make an informed decision. If people strongly believe that summer football is the way to go, then it is possible to make it happen. But there are a number of sacrifices which would have to be made along the way, and I’m not sure that it’s a really a price worth paying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoBNob Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 We can now play games on European nights at least. I'd be against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Summer football has always struck me as people arguing for a change for change's sake rather than giving serious consideration to whether the change would actually be beneficial. There is no evidence attendances would increase, no evidence European performances would improve, no answer to the logistical problems of the calendar and even if there was, anyone who thinks playing March-November will keep our games away from bad weather has no understanding of the Scottish climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 It's a stupid fucking idea that would have absolutely no benefit. I highly doubt crowds will rise in the Summer when, you know, most folk go away on holiday. It's usually driven by people who have just been utterly embarrassed in Europe, to distract from their own failing, which is why you're suddenly seeing articles driven hype our coaches/players and journalists with a link to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Vojáček Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 There's one very simple reason why I don't support summer football. In June the weather is occasionally decent, meaning that you can actually go outside and do other things. The idea of not having any football in the utterly miserable, endless darkness of November/December and instead having to go to places like (God forbid) Braehead, The Glasgow Fort, Silverburn etc would make me just want to hibernate. Some teams play from either late June to the middle of May (St Johnstone, Rangers etc), and most play from the middle of July to first week in May. Take into account friendlies etc and most teams play First week in July to second week in May - I really don't see how altering that would make any difference to whether or not our clubs should beat some European no marks in very early Europa League qualifying rounds - and I don't see any need to change things, purely to help out clubs get to the third qualifying round of a tournament few care about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye the Gnu Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 What? No more midweek outings to Dingwall in January? Never ! A pleasant drive up the A9 in T shirts with the windows down in July just wouldn't be the same. By the way, what is Dingwall like when the sun shines and there are leaves on the trees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swello Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Summer football is an answer to a question that's never been clear to me - I just can't see why someone looks at Scottish Football and its strengths/weaknesses and comes up with "summer fitba". The "attendances" argument to me is the least convincing but is often held up as the main reason for the change. It seems to suppose that the only competition that Scottish Football has it with itself - so it follows that Summer Football *must* beat Winter Football in the attendance game but this seems a bit insular and hopelessly naive to me. The reality is obviously that football here competes with lots of stuff and it seems logical that it will compete with more things on a sunny June or July Saturday than it would in the gloom at the arse end of autumn - especially for the coveted families that clubs spend a lot of time wooing. My suspicion (with no evidence) is that a lot of regular attenders look at December and January as one of the *best* times of the season and not something to be abandoned - the general reaction to the half-arsed winter shutdown gives some idea of that. The other arguments seem to be based on the hope of some miraculous increase in effectiveness of our clubs in Europe. Well, I hate to break this but the co-efficient is a niche interest in Scottish football - and if you are going to disrupt the business of *every* league club (and presumably the pyramid below that) in an unquantifiable way, you had better be doing it on a more convincing basis than "we stand a better chance of pumping some Latvians in the first round of the Europa League". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkboy Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 July is for the Tour de France, all other sports can f**k off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclizine Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 I've said this multiple times on the multiple threads there's been on this; if our current season runs July-May, then what is the winter equivalent? Feb-Dec? Nations like Sweden playing Mar-Nov have shorter seasons because they play fewer league games and have limited cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northboy Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Dunning1874 said: Summer football has always struck me as people arguing for a change for change's sake rather than giving serious consideration to whether the change would actually be beneficial. There is no evidence attendances would increase, no evidence European performances would improve, no answer to the logistical problems of the calendar and even if there was, anyone who thinks playing March-November will keep our games away from bad weather has no understanding of the Scottish climate. Like league reconstruction I agree that there is something of the 'change for change's sake' about calls for summer football. I'd like to see some clear explanation of the pros and cons and how specifically switching to summer football would improve our game. It could well be a good thing as seems to be the experience with Rugby League in England. On the other hand, what would we do from November to February if we had no football? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 The only plus I can see with summer football would be the pitches. Our technical ability might change after 20 years of passing the ball on bowling green like pitches. The state of Scottish players trying to trap/control a ball is a fucking joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 The only plus I can see with summer football would be the pitches. Our technical ability might change after 20 years of passing the ball on bowling green like pitches. The state of Scottish players trying to trap/control a ball is a fucking joke. They only spend 90 minutes there a week, the five other days setting on an astro training pitch should be enough to improve technique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Just now, RandomGuy. said: They only spend 90 minutes there a week, the five other days setting on an astro training pitch should be enough to improve technique It isn't though. You've witnessed this in our European games. The ball bounces off our players and the opposition take the ball before it's under control. I've been involved with 4 youth teams in the past and it's taught at that level and they can do it well, what goes wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 It isn't though. You've witnessed this in our European games. The ball bounces off our players and the opposition take the ball before it's under control. I've been involved with 4 youth teams in the past and it's taught at that level and they can do it well, what goes wrong? I know, Ive no real idea what it is. I want to say it's a mentality thing, we're all trained to control the ball and play passes, but I can never remember being trained to do it in a high pressure situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cilitbang Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 The last thing I'm going to want during Pride is the town filled with drunk football fans - that's just asking for trouble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted July 3, 2017 Share Posted July 3, 2017 Saw Tam McManus champion it the other day, whilst 90% of the country was under eight foot of water. I'm still no sure if he was being sarcastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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