Teachers of P&B

[Miguel Sanchez]

Take the phone off the first child you see with one and throw it out the nearest window. The rest will fall into line.

[jimbaxters]

Ours is a smaller school (one form entry). Students hand their phone in to the HT at the start of the day and she gives them out at exit. Everyone complies with it, I suspect because we imposed it at the start of a school year. In your case where it's a rule change, I imagine there will be some pain at the start but that's the same whatever new rule is imposed.

In my previous school they did what you're trying to do except said parents had to come in before the phone was handed back. The first Friday that it happened and students realised that they would have to leave their phone in school, was utter carnage. There were actual tears from 18 yr old boys and girls and some even tried to barge teachers out of the way to get to their phone. Teachers then started arguing with each other about the fairness of the whole thing. Eventually the LT stepped in and gave them all back. A complete sh**show. Good luck.

Another big one is ipads and smart watches with messages coming through them. It's such a grey area.

Edited April 22 by jimbaxters

[RH33]

Kids my school go to allows them to put one headphone in and listen to music as they work on task. Off when teachers teaching. Seems a fair compromise as some kids find it helpful. 

[houston_bud]

19 minutes ago, RH33 said:

Kids my school go to allows them to put one headphone in and listen to music as they work on task. Off when teachers teaching. Seems a fair compromise as some kids find it helpful. 

Really?? Am I being wooshed here? Is that a whole school policy or the odd teacher?

I'd be very surprised if that's a school policy as there's pretty strong evidence that students who work and study in quiet environments perform significantly better than those who listen to music. Music without lyrics is better than with, but no music is better still.

Not to mention, kids will be forever wanting to change tracks, meaning the phone comes out and they'll see a notification which they'll want to respond to.

Easier said that done, but banning phones in schools should really be a no brainer. I think it has to start when kids enter school, from P1 (there will be kids that age with phones), all schools. Kids that are 13 up wards might be a battle that can't be won, but schools should be trying to put rules in place which the next cohort might be more likely to follow.

Edited April 22 by houston_bud

[Salvo Montalbano]

We have a constant battle with phones - being used in class, being used for bullying/organising and filming fights etc. We would sometimes allow music with one headphone in but for most staff it's a very rare occurrence (revision for a test, doing an art project) and even then I always say to them "fine but pick a playlist and stick with it - no changing tracks, no skipping, no other apps". 

We had a wee phase where we confiscated phones and were meant to hand them into the office, but the office staff (quite rightly IMO) weren't happy at the prospect of getting the blame if a £1,200 phone they were nominally in charge of was to go missing or get broken. We then had the bizarre idea of taking it to the staff room and leaving it in an (unlocked, unsupervised) area that the year head could then give back at the end of the day. 

I honestly don't know the answer. Some the kids do show signs of addictive tendencies with their phones - literally not able to go 10 minutes without glancing at it, getting visibility nervy/jumpy if they have to concentrate on a task for longer than that 10 minutes, getting a sense of relief at the end of a period when they can get their phone out, etc. I think the toothpaste is out the tube though and I don't see how we are ever going to get back to anything different.

I have a 3 year old and he uses a smart screen at nursery and can navigate to YouTube and pick a video on my phone very easily even though initially we were keen to avoid screen time as much as possible. Even with him, if he's playing on or watching a video on a phone and it needs to go away he'll get angry and frustrated and want 5 more minutes and so on, and I dread to think what it'll be like when he goes to school.

[coprolite]

19 hours ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

Take the phone off the first child you see with one and throw it out the nearest window. The rest will fall into line.

At my daughters' school, throwing a kids phone out of the window would be a causal factor on the coroner's report. 

[TxRover]

25 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

Really?? Am I being wooshed here? Is that a whole school policy or the odd teacher?

I'd be very surprised if that's a school policy as there's pretty strong evidence that students who work and study in quiet environments perform significantly better than those who listen to music. Music without lyrics is better than with, but no music is better still.

Not to mention, kids will be forever wanting to change tracks, meaning the phone comes out and they'll see a notification which they'll want to respond to.

Easier said that done, but banning phones in schools should really be a no brainer. I think it has to start when kids enter school, from P1 (there will be kids that age with phones), all schools. Kids that are 13 up wards might be a battle that can't be won, but schools should be trying to put rules in place which the next cohort might be more likely to follow.

The evidence on music and studying seems to show learning a new task might be marginally impaired by music, but otherwise there is a general reduction in stress and improvements in performance while listening to music. The obvious workplace example is medical operations, where music for the operating staff is near universal.

The school policy here is phones away in backpacks during class without teacher permission, but many teachers have found phones useful integrated with lessons here and there. Improper use is an immediate confiscation of the phone and handing over to an Assistant Principal, who puts it in a secure area at the Office. First offense, student or parent can recover phone at days end, second offense is parent only may recover, third and later offenses are parent only AND $15 fine.

This policy has developed over about 6 years and is working quite well. School of around 2,500 14-18 y-o’s and they had 9 third offenses last year.

[houston_bud]

28 minutes ago, TxRover said:

The evidence on music and studying seems to show learning a new task might be marginally impaired by music, but otherwise there is a general reduction in stress and improvements in performance while listening to music. The obvious workplace example is medical operations, where music for the operating staff is near universal.

The school policy here is phones away in backpacks during class without teacher permission, but many teachers have found phones useful integrated with lessons here and there. Improper use is an immediate confiscation of the phone and handing over to an Assistant Principal, who puts it in a secure area at the Office. First offense, student or parent can recover phone at days end, second offense is parent only may recover, third and later offenses are parent only AND $15 fine.

This policy has developed over about 6 years and is working quite well. School of around 2,500 14-18 y-o’s and they had 9 third offenses last year.

I don't think your first paragraph is right. Cardiff University did a study and the findings were pretty clear.

Listening to music adds to cognitive overload (how many people turn the radio down when when they're driving somewhere busy and unfamiliar?). The reduction in stress applies, but when people are 'experts' in what they're doing. Then the issue of cognitive overload doesn't really apply. Most pupils in school will be learning new things, or revising something that they've learned in the past year or so, so not at the 'expert' stage that highly trained surgical staff are at. 

It's good to hear that phone policies are working well in a lot of schools. 

Edit to include: https://www.innerdrive.co.uk/blog/music-while-studying/

One study admittedly

Edited April 22 by houston_bud

[RH33]

2 hours ago, houston_bud said:

Really?? Am I being wooshed here? Is that a whole school policy or the odd teacher?

I'd be very surprised if that's a school policy as there's pretty strong evidence that students who work and study in quiet environments perform significantly better than those who listen to music. Music without lyrics is better than with, but no music is better still.

Not to mention, kids will be forever wanting to change tracks, meaning the phone comes out and they'll see a notification which they'll want to respond to.

Easier said that done, but banning phones in schools should really be a no brainer. I think it has to start when kids enter school, from P1 (there will be kids that age with phones), all schools. Kids that are 13 up wards might be a battle that can't be won, but schools should be trying to put rules in place which the next cohort might be more likely to follow.

I've no idea, she just mentioned she was listening music in class. 

[JMDP]

Our mobile policy works well and is similar as to what was described in the original post. 

However, we have made a decision to be zero tolerance about it and have dedicated lockers that phones go in to at start of day and are removed from at end of day. 

[Gaz]

5 hours ago, RH33 said:

Kids my school go to allows them to put one headphone in and listen to music as they work on task. Off when teachers teaching. Seems a fair compromise as some kids find it helpful. 

Yeah this is an objectively terrible idea.

[RH33]

28 minutes ago, Gaz said:

Yeah this is an objectively terrible idea.

Not my idea. Know another school in area does the same. I was quiet surprised too. 

 

[TxRover]

14 hours ago, houston_bud said:

I don't think your first paragraph is right. Cardiff University did a study and the findings were pretty clear.

Listening to music adds to cognitive overload (how many people turn the radio down when when they're driving somewhere busy and unfamiliar?). The reduction in stress applies, but when people are 'experts' in what they're doing. Then the issue of cognitive overload doesn't really apply. Most pupils in school will be learning new things, or revising something that they've learned in the past year or so, so not at the 'expert' stage that highly trained surgical staff are at. 

It's good to hear that phone policies are working well in a lot of schools. 

Edit to include: https://www.innerdrive.co.uk/blog/music-while-studying/

One study admittedly

There are multiple studies that cover both sides. I know during my time as an Air Traffic Controller we listened to music while working traffic to advantage. As for students, see the “Mozart Effect” and the “Blur Effect”. Additionally, to show how conflicted some of the data is…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734071/ (reporting on stress levels)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34347757/ (patients response)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627307005004 (improves studying results)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21695447/ (mixed results with student with ADHD, some improved, some worsened)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4197792/ (older adult improvement on memory and processing)

https://csuglobal.edu/blog/increasing-cognitive-function-binaural-beats (improvement in cognitive function)

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/best-music-to-work-to (evaluation of musical type influences)

https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2021/03/10/does-listening-to-music-really-help-you-study/ (possibly hindering, but noting that more familiar music might not have this problem)

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/music-and-health (summary study that figuratively throws up its hands)

https://www.uow.edu.au/media/2019/is-it-ok-to-listen-to-music-while-studying.php (it’s OK but…)

 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

4 hours ago, TxRover said:

There are multiple studies that cover both sides. I know during my time as an Air Traffic Controller we listened to music while working traffic to advantage. As for students, see the “Mozart Effect” and the “Blur Effect”. Additionally, to show how conflicted some of the data is…

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3734071/ (reporting on stress levels)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34347757/ (patients response)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0896627307005004 (improves studying results)

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21695447/ (mixed results with student with ADHD, some improved, some worsened)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4197792/ (older adult improvement on memory and processing)

https://csuglobal.edu/blog/increasing-cognitive-function-binaural-beats (improvement in cognitive function)

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/best-music-to-work-to (evaluation of musical type influences)

https://liberalarts.tamu.edu/blog/2021/03/10/does-listening-to-music-really-help-you-study/ (possibly hindering, but noting that more familiar music might not have this problem)

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/music-and-health (summary study that figuratively throws up its hands)

https://www.uow.edu.au/media/2019/is-it-ok-to-listen-to-music-while-studying.php (it’s OK but…)

 

 

Fucking Hell.

If I was on a plane now, I'd crash it deliberately.

[Dundee Hibernian]

Stumbled onto this topic, and having left teaching in the 'noughties, I'm unsurprised to read of the tribulations being suffered in many schools.

Taking the simple ‘phones’ example, when the issues began to arise, I think in the late ‘90s, a general suggestion was that new builds could be constructed in a manner to block mobile reception: whether by accident or design, hospitals built then and since often appear to prevent mobile use unless signed into their networks. Also, mobile blockers and jammers were being used in US schools, a proposition which may be illegal in the UK.

My point: any solution or proposal to the issue of mobile use was always countered by some staff, with arguments based on pupil freedom, technological advances and the future usefulness of mobile devices. Almost always, the supporters of pupil mobile use were those who spent least, or no timetabled involvement with classes.

Anyone who countered that point of view were branded Luddites who had little interest in advancing their teaching horizons, and the future experiences of pupils.

And here we are.

On another issue @Salvo Montalbano mentioned, a couple of months ago, 'lapping', a wonderful term for pupils wandering the school corridors. This was never an issue when I started in teaching in schools in the 'seventies, as senior staff including the HT did their own form of lapping, hoovering up miscreants who weren't in class by choice or as they'd been ejected from rooms for antisocial behaviour. 

I doubt this happens to any great extent nowadays, as towards the end of my time in schools, there were many more qualified teaching staff in schools who didn't actually teach, but spent time in their own office spaces, or attended meetings, or were on courses or long term secondments.

[ICTChris]

What is the positive case for allowing mobile phones in the classroom?  Aside from 'kids will go mental if you take their phones'?

[hk blues]

1 hour ago, ICTChris said:

What is the positive case for allowing mobile phones in the classroom?  Aside from 'kids will go mental if you take their phones'?

Haven't you read all of those links above?

[Salvo Montalbano]

3 hours ago, ICTChris said:

What is the positive case for allowing mobile phones in the classroom?  Aside from 'kids will go mental if you take their phones'?

There are some apps etc that can be useful (blookit and kahoot are quizzes that can be used, they can be used instead of a stopwatch and light source in science, you can look up stuff when doing research, you can live translate if English isn't your native language etc) but for many regions they can all be done on the tablets of chromebooks that each pupil gets. In Fife, where we don't have individual devices and nowhere near enough laptops to use, it's an easy way out if you don't have immediate Internet access. Personally I think they're more trouble than they're worth but there's plenty money to be made by 'education app' developers who'll insist that they are a massive benefit.

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Fucking Hell.

If I was on a plane now, I'd crash it deliberately.

If you were on a plane, I’d do the same to see if it was a tank.

[Buttocks Brown]

7 hours ago, Dundee Hibernian said:

Stumbled onto this topic, and having left teaching in the 'noughties, I'm unsurprised to read of the tribulations being suffered in many schools.

Taking the simple ‘phones’ example, when the issues began to arise, I think in the late ‘90s, a general suggestion was that new builds could be constructed in a manner to block mobile reception: whether by accident or design, hospitals built then and since often appear to prevent mobile use unless signed into their networks. Also, mobile blockers and jammers were being used in US schools, a proposition which may be illegal in the UK.

My point: any solution or proposal to the issue of mobile use was always countered by some staff, with arguments based on pupil freedom, technological advances and the future usefulness of mobile devices. Almost always, the supporters of pupil mobile use were those who spent least, or no timetabled involvement with classes.

Anyone who countered that point of view were branded Luddites who had little interest in advancing their teaching horizons, and the future experiences of pupils.

And here we are.

On another issue @Salvo Montalbano

I think we're at the point now where most members of staff are fed up and want them to go. As ever though so many school rules are a bluff. If a student wants to wear trackies every day then, push comes to shove, you've still got to give them their education.

A system of "phone seen > hand it over" and some just refuse creating aggro and staff pissed off because they lose face.

I think the answer is probably voluntary handover at the start of each day/lesson as most kids do get that it's a distraction to have it in class. At least then they're out the game and you've just got to battle with the usual minority who are problematic anyway.