NotThePars Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 12 hours ago, welshbairn said: Creates a precedent. It's not like the UK. Spain could end up like 16th Century Italy. That's a bit of an over-reaction. 4 hours ago, paul-r-cfc said: The Catalan Government was elected almost exclusively on a mandate to hold the vote as part of a coalition. That not enough? 3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Mmmmm. Sounds familiar The SNP weren't almost exclusively voted on a mandate to hold another vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 The SNP weren't almost exclusively voted on a mandate to hold another vote. Given a mandate based on a record number of votes will do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Is welshbairn seriously suggesting holding a referendum on whether to hold a referendum? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 1 hour ago, eez-eh said: Is welshbairn seriously suggesting holding a referendum on whether to hold a referendum? Not too sure what I meant tbh, but if you got opinion polls saying 60+% wanted a referendum just to settle the issue it would be difficult for the rest of Spain to rule it out. I think the remainers would win a legal referendum anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-r-cfc Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 Not too sure what I meant tbh, but if you got opinion polls saying 60+% wanted a referendum just to settle the issue it would be difficult for the rest of Spain to rule it out. I think the remainers would win a legal referendum anyway. Not sure of the exact figures but polls have said for years that the majority favour a vote either way. Always well above the percentage of those in favour of independence 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 The Catalan Generalitat absolutely have a democratic mandate to call a referendum. If you need to keep falling back on the illegality as your only defence to such an action, if there is no democratic route then you only leave undemocratic routes. Whilst the Spanish state have been legally correct they are morally, democratically and intellectually wrong and completely fucking up a situation where had they just allowed the referendum No would likely have won and if they hadn't the democratic hurdles to secession were so labyrinthine to have taken years, if ever, to come to fruition. The threat of UDI is a completely empty one, A UDI Catalonia would be de jure part of Spain and everyone outside of Nagorno - Karabakh would have treated them as such. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 30 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: A UDI Catalonia would be de jure part of Spain and everyone outside of Nagorno - Karabakh would have treated them as such. Why are you still peddling this nonsense? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 24 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Why are you still peddling this nonsense? Why is it nonsense? Do you think that France, Portugal, Germany or any other EU country will recognise Catalonia? The nonsense here is that you are portraying an illegal vote as having some constitutional significance to anyone outside of Catalonia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 3 minutes ago, strichener said: Why is it nonsense? Do you think that France, Portugal, Germany or any other EU country will recognise Catalonia? The nonsense here is that you are portraying an illegal vote as having some constitutional significance to anyone outside of Catalonia. What do you think will happen? In a year's time will people be pretending an independent state is actually part of another state? Your final sentence betrays your lack of understanding. It is of no importance whether anyone outwith Catalonia considers the vote to have constitutional significance. This is a matter for Catalonia and only Catalonia. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: What do you think will happen? In a year's time will people be pretending an independent state is actually part of another state? Your final sentence betrays your lack of understanding. It is of no importance whether anyone outwith Catalonia considers the vote to have constitutional significance. This is a matter for Catalonia and only Catalonia. A state can only function with recognition. You are a simpleton and I'm out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, strichener said: A state can only function with recognition. You are a simpleton and I'm out. You don't like facts. That's unfortunate. Cheerio. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Why are you still peddling this nonsense? I'm not going to get into this again with you. My dissertation was on the relationship between states and the ICC so you can disagree with my conclusions but you can rest assured I have some familiarity with public international law, interactions between states and the both de jure and de facto functioning of multilateral agreements and institutions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 31 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: My dissertation was on the relationship between states and the ICC so you can disagree with my conclusions but you can rest assured I have some familiarity with public international law, interactions between states and the both de jure and de facto functioning of multilateral agreements and institutions. You'll forgive me if I regard this as fiction. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 40 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: You'll forgive me if I regard this as fiction. I'll forgive you anything. You're as God made you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Well at least this tedious St Johnstone fud has stopped boring the f**k out of everyone on Dundee's threads. Cheers lads. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 When did everyone start recognising Transnistria, South Ossetia and the Donbas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: When did everyone start recognising Transnistria, South Ossetia and the Donbas Don't be such a cynic. Nobody has to recognise anyone. It's what you believe in your heart of hearts to be true that matters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 6 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Like £500 notes really exist. I'm still convinced I'm being Truman Show'ed with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 The fermers have arrived, just wish their Scottish equivalents had had the same passionhttp://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41439787 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 Europe Elects @EuropeElects 7h7 hours ago Spain (Catalonia): Participate in Referendum? Yes: 63% (+11) No: 28% (?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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