House Bartender Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Le Tout P'ti FC said: Ah Dugald Livingstone, I presume. Big career for a relatively unknown character... it's what this thread's all about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Livingstone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 On 05/02/2022 at 00:57, SlipperyP said: I went down a rabbit hole the other night on youtube watching old documentaries of English football hooligans from the 60's & 70's and was surprised of the word 'soccer' being used more or less all the time. We used it at school in the eighties and the big ITV highlights prog in the Midlands was Star Soccer. I think soccer has only fallen into derision because of the encroachment of American football from the mid-eighties. So proper football fans have been more aggressive in insisting on the word football to show up the Septic farce for being the fraud that it is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Tout P'ti FC Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Big career for a relatively unknown character... it's what this thread's all about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_LivingstoneJust noticed he was the manager the last time Newcastle won the FA Cup. 1955!They've Newcastle'd it every year since. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Scottish football teams in 1870: (what does N.B. mean?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 Old programmes often listed the linesmen as red or yellow flag. I seem to recall the linesman with the red flag was usually the more senior of the two or is my memory just playing tricks? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 23 minutes ago, bluearmyfaction said: Scottish football teams in 1870: (what does N.B. mean?) North Britain. Some folk never liked calling Scotland 'Scotland'. 7 minutes ago, Eednud said: Old programmes often listed the linesmen as red or yellow flag. I seem to recall the linesman with the red flag was usually the more senior of the two or is my memory just playing tricks? Yes, that's as I recall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 13, 2022 Share Posted February 13, 2022 28 minutes ago, bluearmyfaction said: (what does N.B. mean?) North Britain. In this context potentially 'North British' i.e. railway company. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 33 minutes ago, bluearmyfaction said: Scottish football teams in 1870: (what does N.B. mean?) Any word on what the codes are.(presumably answers to a questionnaire of sorts sent out) At a Guess 1. Formation 2. number of members 3. home pitch 4. nearest station 5. preferred rules(I believe at that time clubs would regularly switch between codes depending on opponents) 6. Point of contact (secretary?) 7. Strips Its an interesting time, when things were so changeable. The game has changed a lot in the last few decades with rule tweaks but is fundamentally the same sport as it was. it would be interesting to see what people considered things to have been truly settled, we often split things in terms of pre and post war but I think that’s a convenient outside event over something that truly changed football. I’d argue slightly from my own clubs perspective that having a uniform national league couldn’t be confirmed until the mid 1920s when the central league settled their differences with the SFL. You also have sfl formation and generally the advent of league football Or maybe the start of professionalism. Perhaps we’re not there yet. Maybe in 50-100 years some will look at the pyramid forming as a big event, maybe there’s things we haven’t even though of yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 minute ago, parsforlife said: Any word on what the codes are.(presumably answers to a questionnaire of sorts sent out) At a Guess 1. Formation 2. number of members 3. home pitch 4. nearest station 5. preferred rules(I believe at that time clubs would regularly switch between codes depending on opponents) 6. Point of contact (secretary?) 7. Strips Yes. 6 was the club secretary. I am guessing that the clubs that put their details forward (this is the Charles Alcock Football Annual) were those looking for fixtures outside their locality, hence advertising where to write. Note Queen's Park had not yet got their details in the book. Later years would have the place for changing facilities (usually a pub or hotel) and a summary of results. The first couple had membership fees. As for the rules flex, Madras would later adopt association, but then vanished quickly afterwards. The United Rules were Sheffield rules as adopted by clubs in the Midlands. Probably identical other than handball which changed a lot in Sheffield (the Sheffield clubs liked the fair catches because their pitches were often on hillsides). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Oh, and there was a form in each annual for club secretaries to complete and send off. The foreword was often a pitch for more details to be sent. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Those look like rugby club details- Edinburgh Accies for one are still going at the egg chasing- but they still called themselves "football clubs": Watsonians, for example, were called and may still be called Watsonians Football Club. There was a wee bit of cross over in the early days but I think only Kilmarnock really saw the light and switched to a proper game. Merchiston are mentioned there: in Eighteen Seventy Oatcake they hosted an FA Cup tie between Queens Park and Nottingham Forest on the area of the current Napier University Merchiston campus. And there's not a lot of people know that! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 35 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Its an interesting time, when things were so changeable. The game has changed a lot in the last few decades with rule tweaks but is fundamentally the same sport as it was. it would be interesting to see what people considered things to have been truly settled, we often split things in terms of pre and post war but I think that’s a convenient outside event over something that truly changed football. I’d argue slightly from my own clubs perspective that having a uniform national league couldn’t be confirmed until the mid 1920s when the central league settled their differences with the SFL. You also have sfl formation and generally the advent of league football Or maybe the start of professionalism. Perhaps we’re not there yet. Maybe in 50-100 years some will look at the pyramid forming as a big event, maybe there’s things we haven’t even though of yet. From the attending spectators point of view I don't think the really basic foundations have altered since about 1910 - certainly 1923 when promotion-&-relegation came in. Over the years the season has got longer at both ends; floodlights and jet aeroplanes have been invented leading to regular evening and international fixtures; seats have replaced terraces to a large extent; we've seen plenty innovations like 3pts-for-a-win, playoffs, Sunday football, a League Cup, preseason friendlies, the pyramid, WC, Euros etc. (at the expense of many local cups, inter-league, inter-city etc.). However the basic building blocks of a 9-month, 30-odd game league season plus Scottish Cup are there 100yrs ago. Certainly by 1950s you've all the elements that make up the season today. Nowadays there are shootouts, substitutes, coaching staff/managers not just a trainer, sponsorship, TV coverage and all but the rules plus competition framework have been in place then simply evolved. Think how far the weekly experience altered for a fan between say 1885 and 1905. New rules, fixturelists, professionalism, leagues. More radically than artificial light, a Premier Division or all-seaters. If you look at England the most basic football landscape has stood since 1958 to 1960 when Third Division North / South became Third / Fourth, plus League Cup and European football began. Make some divisions 20 or 24 instead of 22, add playoffs for an extra promotion place, subtract a League Cup 2nd leg here or an FA Cup replay there, and for all (outside the elite): you're there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 12 hours ago, HibeeJibee said: More radically than artificial light, a Premier Division or all-seaters. They did try THE DEVIL'S ILLUMINATION as far back as 1878 with a match at Powderhall. I think this is an illustration of the match in London that year although you get the general impression: It didn't catch on as it was fairly crap. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northboy Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 51 minutes ago, tamthebam said: They did try THE DEVIL'S ILLUMINATION as far back as 1878 with a match at Powderhall. I think this is an illustration of the match in London that year although you get the general impression: Great pic - love the guy with the top hat and cane wandering across the pitch. Spectators dress code has seriously declined over the years. Also seems something more exciting happening off to the left behind the artist. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 Chap with the cane is probably one of the two umpires. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) 49 years ago today again... Wednesday 14th February 1973 SFA centenary match Scotland 0-5 England at Hampden Park, Glasgow 48,470 Scottish football's celebration of its 100th anniversary turned into a humiliation and shambles that earnt itself a sobriquet of "the St Valentine Day Massacre". Having decided to invite old rival England it proved a horrible debut for manager Wille Ormond at A level. On a terrible night in Glasgow, snow had to be cleared to allow the game to proceed and limited the crowd to far below expected levels - maybe for the best. Hosts found themself 3-0 down within 15mins as Peter Lorimer's own goal, Clarke and Channon stunned the centenarians. Chivers and another by Clarke in closing 15mins made it a complete rout. During the interval the Tartan Army resorted to chanting for their money back. Such margin of defeat had not been suffered since 1888. Scotland were at least able to restore come pride come the Home Nations in May when they only lost 1-0 at Wembley. Edited February 14, 2022 by HibeeJibee 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 ^^^ Billy Bremner #4 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 (edited) 44 years ago today... Wednesday 15th February 1978 Tour friendly Port Vale 4-2 Fort Lauderdale Strikers at Vale Park, Stoke-on-Trent 1,877 NASL regular season holders Fort Lauderdale rocked up in Burslem during their pre-season tour. They brought star goalie Gordon Banks and Argentina international Roberto Aguire, although George Best only joined later that year, and several Scots were on show. Note that Peter Sutcliffe is the right-winger and not the mass-murderer. Edited February 16, 2022 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 15, 2022 Share Posted February 15, 2022 Other matches on that tour... Monday 6th February 1978 Stockport County 2-4 Fort Lauderdale Strikers Wednesday 8th February 1978 Blackpool 3-2 Fort Lauderdale Strikers Friday 10th February 1978 Workington 0-0 Fort Lauderdale Strikers 6,127 Monday 13th February 1978 Portsmouth 2-2 Fort Lauderdale Strikers Saturday 18th February 1978 Swindon Town 6-2 Fort Lauderdale Strikers 1,173 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.