Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 11 hours ago, Eednud said: @Monkey Tennis and @Dundee Hibernian and anyone else interested. Don’t know why I didn’t dig this out before but these pages are from a 1985 book by Mike Watson “Rags to Riches” The Official History of Dundee United”. Hope they are legible. ETA order is pic 2, pic 1, pic 4, pic 3 Fascinating stuff. This "embarrassment" about the Irish roots of the club still strikes me as remarkable , given that in Glasgow, the same thing has been very much the USP for a club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: It's because he was hopeless. 53 Scotland caps would suggest otherwise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, jagfox said: 53 Scotland caps would suggest otherwise. It's astonishing. He really wasn't good enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: It's astonishing. He really wasn't good enough. He evidently was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, jagfox said: He evidently was. Well he was clearly good enough for certain managers to cap him. It is remarkable though, that he didn't play for a bigger club despite a high profile. He was a weak link for Scotland. Did you get to watch him at the time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Well he was clearly good enough for certain managers to cap him. It is remarkable though, that he didn't play for a bigger club despite a high profile. He was a weak link for Scotland. Did you get to watch him at the time? I didn't see him for Thistle but certainly did for Scotland. You don't get 53 international caps and hundreds of top flight appearances by being "hopeless". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 41 minutes ago, jagfox said: I didn't see him for Thistle but certainly did for Scotland. You don't get 53 international caps and hundreds of top flight appearances by being "hopeless". Well it's obviously all relative, but you don't remain at a club like Thistle for so long if you're a top class goalkeeper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jagfox Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said: Well it's obviously all relative, but you don't remain at a club like Thistle for so long if you're a top class goalkeeper. It was a different time. Even Queens had a decent keeper for many years in Alan Ball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian1 Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 41 minutes ago, jagfox said: I didn't see him for Thistle but certainly did for Scotland. You don't get 53 international caps and hundreds of top flight appearances by being "hopeless". I was an aspiring goalie in the 70's when you could swap ends at half time. I used to stand behind "Roughie" for both halves when Thistle came to Pittodrie.......outwith Dons players I suppose he was my hero at the time. I would say he was probably better than any of the options Scotland have at present.....of course he was never in the same class as Shilton or Clemence (and Corrigan) for England but he was a very good keeper. He was certainkly better than Bobby Clark....who I actually met twice on the same day last month (lovely man) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Just now, jagfox said: It was a different time. Even Queens had a decent keeper for many years in Alan Ball. Correct and he was quite highly rated, but wasn't top class. He wasn't Scottish either. Our contribution to the 1978 debacle was Willie Harkness. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 8 hours ago, Caledonian1 said: Thats fascinating. Unbelievable that Alan Rough was part-time and didnt even have a full time job - just did some promotional work for a sports shop now and then. He is interviewed and said that part-time football was no good for him - training two or three times a week and led him to put on weight that he just couldnt shift (lots of time just hanging around all week) The documentary does say he is unhappy with his part time status and that some English clubs were interested....wonder why he never moved? I don't recall him being that active during games either, tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 13 hours ago, Eednud said: @Monkey Tennis and @Dundee Hibernian and anyone else interested. Don’t know why I didn’t dig this out before but these pages are from a 1985 book by Mike Watson “Rags to Riches” The Official History of Dundee United”. Hope they are legible. ETA order is pic 2, pic 1, pic 4, pic 3 I've got the 1985 print of that book, and for some games and events from the later 'sixties on, it was, let's say, not aways accurate. Thanks for reminding me of Watson's work, he's not really someone I respect. 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: Fascinating stuff. This "embarrassment" about the Irish roots of the club still strikes me as remarkable , given that in Glasgow, the same thing has been very much the USP for a club. As said above, Baron Watson's slant on events may be less than precise. But he is a politician, after all. He was unfortunate that Margaret Curran won Politician of the Year in 2004. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Dundee Hibernian said: I've got the 1985 print of that book, and for some games and events from the later 'sixties on, it was, let's say, not aways accurate. Thanks for reminding me of Watson's work, he's not really someone I respect. As said above, Baron Watson's slant on events may be less than precise. But he is a politician, after all. He was unfortunate that Margaret Curran won Politician of the Year in 2004. Ah, is that the bloke who sets curtains on fire? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar_Army Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) No idea where I remember this from (so it could be a lot of sh!te) but apparently one of the factors of the name change away from Hibernian was also the fact the area of Lochee where many catholics hailed from already had clubs in the form of Lochee Harp. Lochee United, Dundee Violet and according to wiki, Lochee Emmet (which O had never heard of until now). Another strange one about Lochee was the gang colours of the Lochee Fleet. Red and blue. Not colours you might expect from an area that had a high Catholic population. I once read they took their name from the Maryhill Fleet(o) so wonder if there is anything in that. Or perhaps anything green/yeallow/white was already spoken for. As others have mentioned, I could not tell you the religion of any United or Dundee fans unless they mentioned the school they went to. Edited October 30, 2023 by Sugar_Army 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar_Army Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said: Ah, is that the bloke who sets curtains on fire? The very guy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Halloween 1962 and no guising for me that night as I was at Dens Park as part of a 30,596 crowd watching Alan Gilzean scoring a hat trick with Alan Cousin the other in Dundee’s 4-1 win over Sporting Lisbon in the European Cup First Round Second Leg. Going through 4-2 on aggregate to meet Anderlecht in the Quarter Final. Don’t think the photo is any of the goals but it’s from www.deearchive.co.uk There’s more photos in this link. https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/past-times/3819067/dundee-sporting-lisbon/ 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 No photograph in this one from Halloween 1959. Reason for posting is the report on the Reserve League game at Gayfield where it’s reported a crowd of 750 was disappointing. Five of the Dundee side and three from their reserves were regulars in the title winning side two seasons later and one George McGeachie, Alex Stuart nd Bobby Waddell made some first team appearances. It was Billy Smith for Dundee as Gordon Smith was in his first season for Hearts and on his way to his fourth League championship medal and also a League Cup winner’s medal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 44 minutes ago, Eednud said: Halloween 1962 and no guising for me that night as I was at Dens Park as part of a 30,596 crowd watching Alan Gilzean scoring a hat trick with Alan Cousin the other in Dundee’s 4-1 win over Sporting Lisbon in the European Cup First Round Second Leg. I thought they played Cologne in the first round. Was that called a preliminary game or a qualifier or something? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 On 29/10/2023 at 08:33, jagfox said: Interesting wee film showing Thistle build up to a match in 1976. https://discover.bbcrewind.co.uk/asset/628547ea4b0a950023598c58 Brilliant. But there is zero chance that that was a normal pre match team talk by Bertie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 14 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: It's astonishing. He really wasn't good enough. Of course he was. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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