gannonball Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 21 minutes ago, RawB93 said: Would Scottish football be better if Ireland never existed? Blaming a countrys problems on another country that they helped mess up is a bit gammony tbh Edited April 21 by gannonball -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawB93 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, gannonball said: Blaming a countrys problems on another country that they helped mess up is a bit gammony tbh Your use of 'they' implies the same people who are blaming the problems on another country (nobody is doing that) are the same people who were the oppressors in Ireland. I'm not sure why. My use of Ireland referred to the whole island and asked whether or not the absence of the country and thereby these divisive but ultimately galvanising differences in identity in OF fans would have changed the Scottish football landscape and how. It's not serious, just a ponderance of an alternate reality. It's fair to say these issues have acted like a shot of steroids in the arm for both clubs, with it forming a stronger bond in the minds of fans as they feel they have to protect cultures and uphold traditions which are under attack from the other side. Things that fans of any other club simply don't consider when supporting their team or thinking about football. 1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said: If religion in Ireland never existed certainly. Hmm, Celtic still would have been formed* by Irish immigrants and I'd imagine there would still be anti-Irish/anti-immigrant sentiment? Would Rangers have still taken on the role of Scottish representatives of the British state without Protestantism? Like @Jacky1990 I wonder how much of it is, truly, down to religion or if that's simply just another weapon to use when attacking one another. *Actually, I realise now the basis for which Celtic were formed and so perhaps they wouldn't have existed without religion. I wonder how the absence of religion would affect the numbers of Irish immigrants, how they were perceived and whether or not a football club representing them would have come to be? Without religion I'd still expect them to have become the "fierce" rivals they are today, that's why I said Ireland and not religion. But then again, who knows? Without Ireland, Celtic wouldn't have existed and Rangers would have had no reason to get out of bed in the morning. Maybe Queen's Park and Partick Thistle would have become the OF and a poison in our game. Edited April 21 by RawB93 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 15 minutes ago, RawB93 said: Your use of 'they' implies the same people who are blaming the problems on another country (nobody is doing that) are the same people who were the oppressors in Ireland. I'm not sure why. My use of Ireland referred to the whole island and asked whether or not the absence of the country and thereby these divisive but ultimately galvanising differences in identity in OF fans would have changed the Scottish football landscape and how. It's not serious, just a ponderance of an alternate reality. It's fair to say these issues have acted like a shot of steroids in the arm for both clubs, with it forming a stronger bond in the minds of fans as they feel they have to protect cultures and uphold traditions which are under attack from the other side. Things that fans of any other club simply don't consider when supporting their team or thinking about football. Hmm, Celtic still would have been formed* by Irish immigrants and I'd imagine there would still be anti-Irish/anti-immigrant sentiment? Would Rangers have still taken on the role of Scottish representatives of the British state without Protestantism? Like @Jacky1990 I wonder how much of it is, truly, down to religion or if that's simply just another weapon to use when attacking one another. *Actually, I realise now the basis for which Celtic were formed and so perhaps they wouldn't have existed without religion. I wonder how the absence of religion would affect the numbers of Irish immigrants, how they were perceived and whether or not a football club representing them would have come to be? Without religion I'd still expect them to have become the "fierce" rivals they are today, that's why I said Ireland and not religion. But then again, who knows? Without Ireland, Celtic wouldn't have existed and Rangers would have had no reason to get out of bed in the morning. Maybe Queen's Park and Partick Thistle would have become the OF and a poison in our game. You've got Irish immigrants all over the world, is there religious intolerance between Catholics and Protestants in the other Countries they've settled in, and if so anywhere near as bad as Scotland's? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky1990 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said: Yeah the 90 min bigots narrative and casual sectarianism is somehow seen as acceptable by erse cheek fans that sing their songs. I don't think you can totally dismiss Scotland's religious intolerance when it has Orange Orders, they are as much anti Catholic as pro Protestant, and delight in taunting Catholics with their marches, the trying to burst their drum when passing a Catholic Church patter being a well known practice. Fair point about the orange walks. A very bizarre and pathetic group of people. Baffling they are allowed to exist in 2024. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 3 hours ago, RawB93 said: Would Scottish football be better if Ireland never existed? Ireland and the problems with sectarianism would be better if Scotland never existed so fairs fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LIVIFOREVER Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 6 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: Ireland and the problems with sectarianism would be better if Scotland never existed so fairs fair. Think we'd both be better if England didn't exist, c***s stuck their oar in to both our Countries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylish Kid Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 I'm just gonna say that being in a position where the league has to actively avoid a title deciding match is an embarrassment on the country and society 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 They haven't really actively avoided it, there's a not insignificant chance that it could be decided on that date. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 On 19/04/2024 at 07:54, Glen Scotia said: No chance of that. How many away strips have the rangers had that have orange in it. If you put 'Rangers' and 'orange' together what is the first image that comes to mind? And for any the rangers fan reading please don't tell us it's because you once had a Dutch manager and a few Dutch players On 19/04/2024 at 16:35, kingjoey said: For as long as Rangers have official orange strips, the club are officially condoning bigotry. I've always advocated that they need to celebrate the nationality of all their players. Moore & Vidmar the Australians would be a start, now I believe the sporting colours of Australia is Yellow/Gold and Green. Cannot wait to see a Them shirt in those colours. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RawB93 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 Why do the Netherlands wear orange when their flag is blue, red and white? I wondered.. So wait, their justification for using orange kits is that it is a nod to their Dutch players... who in turn wear it because of William of Orange?... What? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 17 minutes ago, RawB93 said: Why do the Netherlands wear orange when their flag is blue, red and white? I wondered.. So wait, their justification for using orange kits is that it is a nod to their Dutch players... who in turn wear it because of William of Orange?... What? In that case Rangers might as well just cut out the (fake) middle man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylish Kid Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 8 hours ago, Stylish Kid said: I'm just gonna say that being in a position where the league has to actively avoid a title deciding match is an embarrassment on the country and society Incidentally, Inter can win the Italian title tonight against AC Milan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 13 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said: Incidentally, Inter can win the Italian title tonight against AC Milan. Away fans allowed as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
well again Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 42 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said: Away fans allowed as well? Far more civilised than this part of the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 On 21/04/2024 at 11:31, LIVIFOREVER said: Decades ago when i was a boy, you had folk wanting to kick your head in just for coming from another town a few miles away from your own, went to Bathgate swimming pool with my big brother and his pal and we got jumped on our way to the bus station for coming from Whitburn. Was also up in Fauldhouse playing golf and was accosted by a gang asking me if i was from Fauldhouse, course i said yes, and they followed me all the way to my Granny's house in Barton Terrace, even if i wasn't lucky enough to have a Granny staying there i'd have been walking into a strangers house to avoid a kicking. This sounds like a West Lothian problem tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylish Kid Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 1 hour ago, Dunfermline Don said: Away fans allowed as well? Think so. Although it's an interesting conceptual consideration as they share a stadium... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 5 hours ago, RawB93 said: Why do the Netherlands wear orange when their flag is blue, red and white? I wondered.. So wait, their justification for using orange kits is that it is a nod to their Dutch players... who in turn wear it because of William of Orange?... What? When Dutch people say “William of Orange” they mean the great grandfather of the “William of Orange” that you or I would associate with that title He was the leader of the Dutch fight for independence from Spain and the Spanish Inquisition 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby_Doo Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 9 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: When Dutch people say “William of Orange” they mean the great grandfather of the “William of Orange” that you or I would associate with that title He was the leader of the Dutch fight for independence from Spain and the Spanish Inquisition I wasn't expecting that answer. 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 20 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: When Dutch people say “William of Orange” they mean the great grandfather of the “William of Orange” that you or I would associate with that title. He was the leader of the Dutch fight for independence from Spain and the Spanish Inquisition aka "William the Silent". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted April 22 Share Posted April 22 On 21/04/2024 at 11:49, gannonball said: Blaming a countrys problems on another country that they helped mess up is a bit gammony tbh if I wasn’t familiar with your work I’d have thought you were being clever and ironic 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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