wastecoatwilly Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: And yet very few make it. Have you considered just buying from other clubs? Taking Armstrong away from you guys doesn't make dundee utd better,increasing the number of talented players does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 18 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Celtic spend millions on youth development every year the time and effort, the coaching, the full time structure gives players every chance to develop their individual talent. Players that don't make that grade have that back ground and focus to play at a decent level, eg Joe Thomson Seriously, what on earth has that got to do with the Colt teams proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: You're all over the place here. The "overall point" you refer to in the final paragraph has changed completely, laughably and transparently from what it initially was. You were saying quite unequivocally that several Scottish clubs had experienced insolvency events because we have so many in our national set up, given our small population. As has been shown with an English comparison, that argument bears no scrutiny. Admitting that might help with how foolish your stance looks. Ok i stand by that assertion and I will pinpoint a Scottish club and use them as the comparison. Dundee FC one of our City clubs has endured 2 periods of Administration in recent memory, poor mismanagement was a contributory factor in this occurring. But for a club from a city in Scotland to attract average home gates of between 4-5 K is an indication of low levels of support even for a top tier club in Scotland. Carlisle Utd a league 1 club , the third teir of English football have over the last 5 seasons averaged home gates between 6-7 K, if you cannot concede that these figures substantiate my assertion that England is better equipped to support their member clubs based solely on average attendances then I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 11 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said: There is a lot of stuff on this thread from happyaccie that requires closer scrutiny. However I'm most interested to find out about all these players that Dundee United developed, not only from Shetland, but the surrounding islands. There is also a deep irony from a Hamilton fan saying any other club is too small or unsustainable. Hamilton have been run excellenty in recent years but they are no bigger/better than a Clyde, Dumbarton or Peterhead. The too many clubs argument is pish. Once you get to semi pro level ie bottom of championship down there are about 50 perfectly sustainable clubs operating at a semi pro level. Your club brought through lots from Dumfries and Galloway too apparently. I'd missed that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Ok i stand by that assertion and I will pinpoint a Scottish club and use them as the comparison. Dundee FC one of our City clubs has endured 2 periods of Administration in recent memory, poor mismanagement was a contributory factor in this occurring. But for a club from a city in Scotland to attract average home gates of between 4-5 K is an indication of low levels of support even for a top tier club in Scotland. Carlisle Utd a league 1 club , the third teir of English football have over the last 5 seasons averaged home gates between 6-7 K, if you cannot concede that these figures substantiate my assertion that England is better equipped to support their member clubs based solely on average attendances then I think we shall have to agree to disagree on this matter. Dundee has a population of 140k. With two football clubs who regularly pull in 11-12k Home fans between them on a weekly basis. That is not bad going at all. Carlisle’s average attendance is 4600 with a population of 75,000... you do the math. Dundee supports its clubs better. This has no relevance to anything by the way. Clubs in England having better attendances just means that they have more money to spend whilst Scottish clubs have less. It doesn’t make any more suited towards being senior in comparison to the other. You really do haver a lot of shite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 32 minutes ago, happyaccie said: So you are saying the collapse of ITV digital being unable to honour the £315 million commitment to the English league in 2000 which resulted in a shortfall of £180 million pound had no adverse impact on these clubs? My argument is primarily England with its population, outwith any external investment (e.g.) tv money is better placed to sustain its member clubs than Scotland can. And with the increased revenue from subsequent tv deals being more fairly distributed in England, the legislative bodies down there are taking steps to prevent other clubs running into financial trouble. What? Of course collapsing TV deals influenced that picture. What type of blithering simpleton would suggest otherwise? Your difficulty is that you very expIicitly connected several Scottish clubs experiencing insolvency events, to us having forty two sides in the national structure, as if the presence of Elgin somehow did for Rangers. I would contend that no such connection exists. Your subsequent attempts at goalpost shifting are just funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 6 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: Dundee has a population of 140k. With two football clubs who regularly pull in 11-12k Home fans between them on a weekly basis. That is not bad going at all. Carlisle’s average attendance is 4600 with a population of 75,000... you do the math. Dundee supports its clubs better. This has no relevance to anything by the way. Clubs in England having better attendances just means that they have more money to spend whilst Scottish clubs have less. It doesn’t make any more suited towards being senior in comparison to the other. You really do haver a lot of shite. Spot on. He hasn't any trace of a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Seriously, what on earth has that got to do with the Colt teams proposal? Houston we have a problem!the more talent we have in this country the better the leagues become.bleeding colt teams into the league structure increases the level. If you put full time development players into a part-time set up what do you think would happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Your club brought through lots from Dumfries and Galloway too apparently. I'd missed that. They had training centres throughout Scotland, a teamsheet I once had in my possession had players from Dumfries & Galloway, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Ayrshire the central belt and the highlands & islands, a very diverse team sheet geographically. These lads were all S- form signings with Dundee Utd, the forerunner to the pro youth forms youngsters now sign. I asked the guy in charge how Utd could finance such an operation his surname was Livingstone think it may have been Graham Livingstone though I'm not 100% sure of that.His reply was that under the management of Jim McLean, he knew his club couldn't compete in the transfer market with others and decided the way to improve their recruitment programme was to invest in a intensive youth policy. This was a highly successful ethos adopted by Dundee Utd, it was the foundation on which the club built to achieve its most fruitful period in the 80s. In the 70s Utd unearthed talents like Andy Gray, David Neary, and many many more too many to mention from this intensive youth programme. You once again try to have a thinly veiled dig at me, but again you have been answered with a comprehensive reply to negate your cheap shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Houston we have a problem!the more talent we have in this country the better the leagues become.bleeding colt teams into the league structure increases the level. If you put full time development players into a part-time set up what do you think would happen? The shite full time players would get pumped? Like they did in the challenge cup? The last full time team to visit Gayfield got beat 7-1. You are clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 20 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: The shite full time players would get pumped? Like they did in the challenge cup? The last full time team to visit Gayfield got beat 7-1. You are clueless. In a one off game any team can get pumped but over a period of a season the development teams get better. you are the clueless one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 22 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: Dundee has a population of 140k. With two football clubs who regularly pull in 11-12k Home fans between them on a weekly basis. That is not bad going at all. Carlisle’s average attendance is 4600 with a population of 75,000... you do the math. Dundee supports its clubs better. This has no relevance to anything by the way. Clubs in England having better attendances just means that they have more money to spend whilst Scottish clubs have less. It doesn’t make any more suited towards being senior in comparison to the other. You really do haver a lot of shite. Carlisle's average homegate over the last 5 seasons has been 6,572 so your figures are inaccurate. If you read my post you can see I used the average over the past 5 seasons and not on 1 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 minute ago, happyaccie said: Carlisle's average homegate over the last 5 seasons has been 6,572 so your figures are inaccurate. If you read my post you can see I used the average over the past 5 seasons and not on 1 season. How did that do with aiding your case that several Scottish clubs experienced insolvency events due to us having too many in the national set up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, happyaccie said: They had training centres throughout Scotland, a teamsheet I once had in my possession had players from Dumfries & Galloway, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Ayrshire the central belt and the highlands & islands, a very diverse team sheet geographically. These lads were all S- form signings with Dundee Utd, the forerunner to the pro youth forms youngsters now sign. I asked the guy in charge how Utd could finance such an operation his surname was Livingstone think it may have been Graham Livingstone though I'm not 100% sure of that.His reply was that under the management of Jim McLean, he knew his club couldn't compete in the transfer market with others and decided the way to improve their recruitment programme was to invest in a intensive youth policy. This was a highly successful ethos adopted by Dundee Utd, it was the foundation on which the club built to achieve its most fruitful period in the 80s. In the 70s Utd unearthed talents like Andy Gray, David Neary, and many many more too many to mention from this intensive youth programme. You once again try to have a thinly veiled dig at me, but again you have been answered with a comprehensive reply to negate your cheap shot. What's that you're saying Scoop? You're exclusively revealing that Dundee United had an extensive youth system four decades ago? Well I never... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 9 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: In one off games any team can get pumped but over a period of a season the development teams get better. you are the clueless one Marvellous. Just marvellous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Marvellous. Just marvellous. I'm glad you agree that colt teams are a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 4 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: How did that do with aiding your case that several Scottish clubs experienced insolvency events due to us having too many in the national set up? We obviously have different views on this, if you feel the addition of more clubs played no role in clubs being embroiled in financial difficulties that's your opinion it's safe to say my opinion differs greatly, it must be a coincidence that clubs entering administration happened post league members increasing from 38 to 42 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 2 minutes ago, happyaccie said: We obviously have different views on this, if you feel the addition of more clubs played no role in clubs being embroiled in financial difficulties that's your opinion it's safe to say my opinion differs greatly, it must be a coincidence that clubs entering administration happened post league members increasing from 38 to 42 . Yes that is my opinion. I believe in gravity for similar reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: How did that do with aiding your case that several Scottish clubs experienced insolvency events due to us having too many in the national set up? You obviously have no problem with Scotland being able to support 42 senior clubs do you agree with that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 10 minutes ago, happyaccie said: You obviously have no problem with Scotland being able to support 42 senior clubs do you agree with that ? Yes, I agree with that. I'd thought my position was clear, but hey ho. What knockout salvo are you about to unleash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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