Sevco & Sellick colt teams maybe added to league 2

[invergowrie arab]

I assume these proposals are more than the description of the outputs that have been published so far and also include an evidence base for the proposals, short intermediate and long term success criteria, detailed risks assessment on the impact not just upon the colt teams but league as a whole and a cost benefit analysis eg number of colts developing into 1St team players v financial and organisational impact.

Or has Chris McCart just drawn a diagram on MS paint with fivers floating down over Elgin and Kieran Tierney holding the world cup.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

I think that the benefit for the bigots is to have a trojan horse in the league system, that they can use when their next scramble to enter the English or an Atlantic League setup occurs: 'we urnae leavin: we've still goat a team in Scottish football'. Let's not forget that Mulholland was telling anyone who'd listen just a few months ago that the key to Sevco's future was having their hotshot youngsters withdraw from the development league to play 'glamour friendlies' with Man City, PSG etc. Now it's apparently better for them to play hoofball at Borough Briggs on a January afternoon. 

You're right with the top bit, just as getting Colts into the Challenge Cup was a Trojan Horse to getting this on the table.

[Ira Gaines]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

You're right with the top bit, just as getting Colts into the Challenge Cup was a Trojan Horse to getting this on the table.

Which, of course, many people pointed out at the time and were proved to be correct. It doesn't matter that it's been shown that people didn't want them in the Challenge Cup and still don't. The foot was in the door and that was the beginning.

Everything they do is to benefit themselves and nobody else. Which is actually fine by me. That's up to those to clubs to feel that way. It's anyone else, from the authorities to the other clubs, that should be doing everything they can to stop it.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

Which, of course, many people pointed out at the time and were proved to be correct. It doesn't matter that it's been shown that people didn't want them in the Challenge Cup and still don't. The foot was in the door and that was the beginning.

Everything they do is to benefit themselves and nobody else. Which is actually fine by me. That's up to those to clubs to feel that way. It's anyone else, from the authorities to the other clubs, that should be doing everything they can to stop it.

I don't even accept the "it's ok for the OF to want  to further their own ends" line.  

I think they have an absolute responsibility towards the wider game and that their bullying is morally reprehensible.

[Monkey Tennis]

3 hours ago, Randy Giles said:

I don't willy gives the slightest f**k about improving the overall game. I don't even mind that attitude either. But at least be honest about it.

I actually think that he thinks he does.

It's just that he has neither the inclination or the capacity to think something through properly.

[happyaccie]

13 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

You are describing a culture change within Scottish football,the development league is going away from the physical side of the game and the hoof it up the park style and replacing it with skillful and technical players something that is been lacking in our game for decades.  

But you still have not answered the simple question, why should the OF be afforded the opportunity for admission to the senior level that will not be afforded to other clubs like Accies, Motherwell, Hibs, Hearts etc, that is if the proposal is accepted.

[happyaccie]

5 hours ago, nsr said:

Here's a radical idea. Scottish clubs could bring through young Scottish players by actually playing them in the first team.

What? Most of us are already doing that?

That's a f*****g alien concept to the OF, hence the SPFL have not introduced a minimum number of development players must be included in senior team sheets, Sellick & sevco would go in the huff if that was enforced.

[Bazil85]

15 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The fecking players, the better the players  the better the league is.

Better the league is? Turning the league into a development league will be better than it actually being a competition right now? Nonsense 

[bennett]

6 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Don't be daft Bennett.

He's declared a view repeatedly.  It's not unreasonable that he be invited  defend it each time.

He can't defend it tho, so there's no point in continuing to Badger the guy.

 

 

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, bennett said:

He can't defend it tho, so there's no point in continuing to Badger the guy.

 

 

Fully exposing that his comments cannot be supported, is the point.

[senorsoupe]

30 minutes ago, happyaccie said:

That's a f*****g alien concept to the OF, hence the SPFL have not introduced a minimum number of development players must be included in senior team sheets, Sellick & sevco would go in the huff if that was enforced.

The starting XI of Celtic's game against Partick this week would show that you are talking shite (at least as far as Celtic are concerned).  3 Academy grads in the starting lineup is better than most other Premiership teams week in and week out

[happyaccie]

3 minutes ago, senorsoupe said:

The starting XI of Celtic's game against Partick this week would show that you are talking shite (at least as far as Celtic are concerned).  3 Academy grads in the starting lineup is better than most other Premiership teams week in and week out

Have you seen how many clubs like Accies killie Motherwell Hearts include in their squads week in week out, Celtic occasionally do it against weaker opposition but if your club were enforced to list 6-7 in a match day squad your club would be up in arms about it.

[Clyde01]

That's a f*****g alien concept to the OF, hence the SPFL have not introduced a minimum number of development players must be included in senior team sheets, Sellick & sevco would go in the huff if that was enforced.

With an 11-1 majority required it is rigged to suit the old firms agenda.

Seems to me a real opportunity to get some initiatives passed, like minimum quotas of academy players, was missed while rangers were floundering about in the lower leagues.

The truth however is there are other teams that are guilty of filling their squads with low quality foreign imports and non league level shite from down south. Caley thistle and Ross county being 2 that immediately spring to mind.

[nsr]

Just now, Clyde01 said:

Seems to me a real opportunity to get some initiatives passed, like minimum quotas of academy players, was missed while rangers were floundering about in the lower leagues.

 

Indeed. Was this ever pursued? Were Celtic ever on the end of an 11-1 vote against them?

[bennett]

12 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Fully exposing that his comments cannot be supported, is the point.

You've already done that many posts ago...

[senorsoupe]

1 minute ago, happyaccie said:

Have you seen how many clubs like Accies killie Motherwell Hearts include in their squads week in week out, Celtic occasionally do it against weaker opposition but if your club were enforced to list 6-7 in a match day squad your club would be up in arms about it.

Hamilton and Hearts (only recently) are an exception but a quick glance at the squads for Kilmarnock and Motherwell's last games show that they started two academy grads each.  Depending on the definition of home-grown I am sure Celtic would adapt.  It's Rangers who would have a bigger problem given that they have pretty much no academy grads in their team

[happyaccie]

1 minute ago, Clyde01 said:

 

With an 11-1 majority required it is rigged to suit the old firms agenda.

Seems to me a real opportunity to get some initiatives passed, like minimum quotas of academy players, was missed while rangers were floundering about in the lower leagues.

The truth however is there are other teams that are guilty of filling their squads with low quality foreign imports and non league level shite from down south. Caley thistle and Ross county being 2 that immediately spring to mind.

 

This is exactly what should be addressed , these two clubs are a very good example, they have a huge catchment area and can attract talented youngsters into the clubs, rather than import lower level league English players or overseas players.All clubs have the right to implement their own business model, but all should be made aware of their responsibility to the future health of the game.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, nsr said:

Indeed. Was this ever pursued? Were Celtic ever on the end of an 11-1 vote against them?

Did our friend Milne not play a part in shamefully ensuring that 11-1 remained in place, thus allowing the duopoly to be re-established and everyone to be once more shat upon by the pantomime rivals?

[Bazil85]

A summary of all the Cons and Pros that I can muster so far... Basically get this idea in the sea. 

Cons

• Turns L1 and L2 into development leagues at the detriment of competition 
• Fans of these clubs overwhelmingly against it 
• No sporting integrity in them getting parachuted into L2 and exempt from relegation 
• Finance being offered can only be described as a bribe 
• On the back of previous point, extra money only secured for two years. If withdrawn after that time clubs could be worse off if fans don't return (as many have stated they'll stop attending games if this goes through). Massive risk to take 
• Proposal details says this would be good for Scottish youth development, but no obligation to play any Scottish players so can't back that claim up
• 10/12 team leagues not designed for Colts, could have a team finishing 6th out of 12 gaining promotion
• Current quality of Colts are nowhere near good enough as shown in Challenge Cup
• Challenge Cup also evidence that crowds will go down and little interest from OF fans
• Scotland require to develop players that are good enough to get us to World Cup and European finals on a regular basis. There is no evidence that 19/20 year olds playing against part-time footballers that train two/ three days a week will develop into this level of quality player
• Loan market to L1 & L2 clubs from the OF and other larger teams (if they also enter Colts) will dry up 
• Championship and lower level SP teams may lose promising young players that they loan out to L1 and L2 as the OF Colts will have to strengthen their youth teams. St Mirren as an example, at some point this season we've had six promising youngsters on loan to L1/ L2 teams. Players who's heads could easily be turned by more money at OF and same match experience at the Colts
• Proposal explicitly details that it would generate more fan excitement, this is completely false based on feedback and clearly shows they haven't evidence gathered
• Explicitly references Dutch league as a success for B teams. They've only had them in league structure for roughly five years, a historically poor time in the Dutch football teams history 
• Directly against fan survey result where 74% of fans said they'd be against this
• Further strengthen the position that SPFL & SFA are only interested in furthering the agenda of two teams and in no way care what fans think 

Pros

• May result in a short-term financial benefit (again can only be described as bribe money)
• Benefit to Rangers and Celtic (and if other big teams do it after the pilot)  in developing their own youth players in a competitive environment. Again this would only benefit these teams as no evidence the players will end up major international tournament quality.  

[happyaccie]

3 minutes ago, senorsoupe said:

Hamilton and Hearts (only recently) are an exception but a quick glance at the squads for Kilmarnock and Motherwell's last games show that they started two academy grads each.  Depending on the definition of home-grown I am sure Celtic would adapt.  It's Rangers who would have a bigger problem given that they have pretty much no academy grads in their team

How predictable is that answer, criticising the other cheek, I'm not defending sevco but McCrorie, Wilson & Bates all come through the youth programme at sevco , your overwhelming urge to belittle sevco on this occasion has come back and bit you on your arse, that aside with the resources you have in relation to the other clubs mentioned, to only have less or equal amounts of development players playing first team football suggests that Sellicks youth programme falls well behind the clubs I mentioned in relative terms.