Sevco & Sellick colt teams maybe added to league 2

[Ira Gaines]

And how will this improve Scottish football? What makes it a good idea in that sense?

I'll make this the last time I ask. I'll assume you simply don't know if you can't answer.

[bennett]

2 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

And how will this improve Scottish football? What makes it a good idea in that sense?

I'll make this the last time I ask. I'll assume you simply don't know if you can't answer.

Wind yer neck in hulkster and stop badgering the guy, you and the rest have made your point.

 

 

[wastecoatwilly]

2 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

And how will this improve Scottish football? What makes it a good idea in that sense?

I'll make this the last time I ask. I'll assume you simply don't know if you can't answer.

The fecking players, the better the players  the better the league is.

[happyaccie]

56 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

The food chain is the means every club runs within. and most of them are happy with the status quo.

With the exception of the vile bigot brothers aka the OF, who think it is their entitlement to have the other 40 member clubs to be submissive to their agendas.

[happyaccie]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

 

It's only been two years,there is a shit load of questions here,every club in Scotland knows were in the food chain they are,full-time or part-time.
For me the bigger picture is the players and how they develop,i couldn't care less which team they play for.
The loan system could become a draft system in the lower leagues.

Quite can't grasp what you mean but I'm going to have a stab at it.

Is it your belief that the inclusion of the OF development teams being granted admission to league 2 will enhance Scotlands prospects of qualifying for the finals of international tournament football ?

[1320Lichtie]

The fecking players, the better the players  the better the league is.

The OF youth teams are fucking pish.

[realmadrid]

So the team that lost to a St Johnstone 20s team who are in the bottom half of the development league are going to drop into league 2. Makes perfect sense to me [emoji6]

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, The Spider said:

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you genuinely want our young footballers to progress, and aren't just on the wind-up. Most of what you said above is correct, and worthy of support, but for me at any rate has one fatal flaw.

If you put physically under-developed players (unless the plan is to fill the Colts teams with mutants), then as the Challenge Cup has proved over the last two seasons young skillful players are getting skelped by teams with a more physical presence and losing 50/50 challenges and headed goals from set pieces (unlike you I've seen several of these games in person and many as highlights).

Putting the politics and financial implications to one side for a moment, this proposal will push the development of the these players backwards as they'll start to find out that the best way for them to bypass the physical element is to play a long ball game and either get onto second balls or use their speed to get beyond slower defenders, but that will be no use to them whatsoever when they get to 21 and find themselves having to re-learn how the game is played at a higher level.

The best way to develop younger players is by putting them alongside seasoned pros - not up against them with little by way of experience in their own team. The demise of our young players is partly due to the demise of street, park and schools football but also largely due to the demise of the reserve leagues. When the McNeills and Greigs of this world were recovering from injury, they were eased back into the first team after a couple of reserve games, so most young players got used to playing with first team players from their own clubs in a competitive environment, and in the style of football that their club wanted to play.

The loan system has tried to re-dress that balance, and in some cases does help a player's development, but many struggle to adapt to a style of play completely different to the way their club likes to play, and by the time they are starting to copme to grips with it as well as recognising how their team-mates play (long-ball to Jimmy, but to feet with his back to goal for John), it's time to go back to their parent club and surprise surprise they struggle with new players and systems and so get punted off to another team on loan to start the cycle again.

I know it's not quite as simplistic as that, but I'm a strong believer that Scottish football needs to virtually scrap the loan system and re-direct funds into re-establishing proper reserve leagues, regional if need be. Players need competive games in a familiar environment to develop, and even ignoring the loanees, what about all the others who sit on benches most games, occasionally getting 10 minutes here and there and little else during the course of a season? So part of the problem is the over-loaded benches, becaue that's where the guys who could be playing in a reserve game languish, so while we're at it let's scrap that system too and go back to having two or three guys on the bench other than in the later rounds of cup competitions.

Nothing original here, it's all been done before, but it was tried and tested and a lot better than what's being suggested here. For the benefit of Scottish football? My arse!

You are describing a culture change within Scottish football,the development league is going away from the physical side of the game and the hoof it up the park style and replacing it with skillful and technical players something that is been lacking in our game for decades.  

[Jack Burton]

You are describing a culture change within Scottish football,the development league is going away from the physical side of the game and the hoof it up the park style and replacing it with skillful and technical players something that is been lacking in our game for decades.  

You've clearly never watched a League Two game because that's all it is physical with a lot of hoof ball.

[strichener]

43 minutes ago, Jack Burton said:

 

You've clearly never watched a League Two game because that's all it is physical with a lot of hoof ball.

Pretty much like every division if we're honest.  I can't recall watching a Scottish game and thinking "ahh just what Cruyff meant".

[Monkey Tennis]

9 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

I couldn't care less about CL level this is about trying to improve Scottish football.
The food chain is the means every club runs within. and most of them are happy with the status quo

Still not an answer in any meaningful sense.

You're making a giant leap to say that the step of including colt sides in the Challenge Cup and then two of them in the bottom division, will "improve Scottish football" without once explaining how.  

Of course a food chain of sorts exists in that there is vast disparity in resources, but again, what's your point in regard to that, in this context?  

 

It looks to me like you're someone who experiences very few thoughts, yet somehow reaches firm opinions.   Your inability to support the one you've expressed here, could be no more evident.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 hours ago, bennett said:

Wind yer neck in hulkster and stop badgering the guy, you and the rest have made your point.

 

 

Don't be daft Bennett.

He's declared a view repeatedly.  It's not unreasonable that he be invited  defend it each time.

[nsr]

Here's a radical idea. Scottish clubs could bring through young Scottish players by actually playing them in the first team.

What? Most of us are already doing that?

[Ira Gaines]

42 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Don't be daft Bennett.

He's declared a view repeatedly.  It's not unreasonable that he be invited  defend it each time.

Bennett is a snivelling wee shitebag. He's always going to defend like for like.

And the players aren't better. The OF colts repeatedly get pumped by lower division teams. So now that this argument has been proven wrong, is there anything else that makes it a good idea?

[The Spider]

8 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

 the hoof it up the park style's........................................ something that is been lacking in our game for decades.  

Trust me, for more than half the teams in L2 + various others in the two leagues above that, you are going to me slaughtered for your naivety. Get yourself along to a Clyde game (purely for geographical reasons) prefarably v Edinburgh City, Cowden or Berwick, and then come back to enthuse about what you saw before spouting that level of pish. I agree that our full-time top teams try to play proper (the way it should be played, on the deck) football, but if you genuinely think that putting colt players into L2 games where they will be outmuscled and bullied on (some) surfaces where they'll need three touches to control the ball, then I'm wasting my time trying to advise you otherwise and you clearly rank with Regan and Doncaster as one of the visionaries of our game.

[Ira Gaines]

I don't willy gives the slightest f**k about improving the overall game. I don't even mind that attitude either. But at least be honest about it.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The only way younger players progress is when they play alongside not just against older players. If you were going to have other teams from the top league putting reserve teams in to the lower leagues then it has to be all or nine not just the two cheeks.

 

 

[forameus]

I'm on another forum that has a dedicated football sub-forum, largely English centric (and populated mostly by some pretty right-wing types it seems)., and funnily enough no-one sees the problem with it.  Rangers and Celtic fans believe it's a good thing, and anyone outside of Scotland doesn't see the issue.  What a surprise.

Other people will have put it more eloquently than me, but I honestly can't see any real benefits for anyone in this, even Celtic and Rangers.  All it'll do is give some players that aren't good enough for Championship/League One (and certainly not good enough for Rangers/Celtic) some gametime.  I fail to believe this is going to suddenly make them amazing players, probably just as likely to see them fall out of love with the game.

[vikingTON]

I think that the benefit for the bigots is to have a trojan horse in the league system, that they can use when their next scramble to enter the English or an Atlantic League setup occurs: 'we urnae leavin: we've still goat a team in Scottish football'. Let's not forget that Mulholland was telling anyone who'd listen just a few months ago that the key to Sevco's future was having their hotshot youngsters withdraw from the development league to play 'glamour friendlies' with Man City, PSG etc. Now it's apparently better for them to play hoofball at Borough Briggs on a January afternoon. 

[harry94]

I don't really get the whole reserve league argument as a means to competitive football. Those days are long gone, teams can't afford to generally have a second team that's basically independent of a first 11 and that's the only way you are really going to bring competition in it. Football is a squad game these days and the second team is used for rehabilitation and keeping match fitness up by giving players an hour or so, changing the name from 'under 20s' to 'reserves' isn't going to change anything in practice IMO.

I think the concept of the colt teams is actually quite a good idea in principle. Watching the 20s play against the Highland League teams provides a much bigger test for them and there's a level of competition that can't really be replicated unless you manage to get your whole squad on loan. There are upsides in this regard to the Old Firm and I don't really think that anybody themselves would want to deny their own team that extra tool to potentially develop youth.

The big issue in Scotland is the implementation is maybe more difficult than anywhere else. On the continent, they generally have leagues which are much bigger and regionalisation kicks in at tier three and gives a few sections to play in so in practice, you've maybe got a league of 20 with 2 or 3 B teams and that isn't going to have that much of a detrimental impact on fan experience. Here, there just not enough space for teams to go and we don't really have a proper pyramid in place yet. Until we fix that, we can't really justify steam-rolling the leagues.

My big priority would be to perhaps reform the loan system and to then move on to getting this absurdity in Scottish Football with a distinct set-up for Junior Football ended so we can actually have a proper pyramid system down the ranks. For me, the SFA really need to mediate and get this issue sorted, as much as the 'thicko juniors' attitude is quite prevalent, the 'senior' clubs in our game do have vested interests and as such, there has not been any adequate effort to incentivise clubs into the set-up. The lack of regionalisation below level two also heavily disincentives teams from even the current 'pyramid' from aspiring promotion and stifles progression. It doesn't seem anywhere close to being a true national set-up to me right now.

I think when we've come to a solution about that, it may be viable to look at a reasonable implementation of this idea but right now, any attempt will fail spectacularly.