Clyde01 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Why is it not? Would you be happy if man united and Liverpool bribed their way into sticking their kids teams into the Scottish Premiership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 You would think the rangers would have enough first hand experience to realise there is f**k all to be learned in league 2. Unless our plan is to take the international stage by storm through developing a golden generation of kick and rush hoof ballers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Randy Giles said: You've still to answer the very basic question. What makes this a good idea? You're the one that said it's a good idea so it's not that unfair to ask for a bit of reasoning on that. Between 18 and 21 players in this country regress,it's also said that under 20's playing against 20's isn't the best for development. The challenge cup gives the young talent more experience against seasoned pros plus playing at a higher level. For me it's about the development of players not the teams they play for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 11 hours ago, JakeSAFC said: Chris McCart, of Celtic, admitted on a phone call to Peterhead boss Jim McInally that there was absolutely no positives for League 2 sides with proposal... What an absolute farce. McInally is saying what benefits him most just now. If he'd landed the Celtic Youth gig it would be him making those calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 5 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Between 18 and 21 players in this country regress,it's also said that under 20's playing against 20's isn't the best for development. The challenge cup gives the young talent more experience against seasoned pros plus playing at a high level. For me it's about the development of players not the teams they play for. So you honestly think that a one-off outmuscling at say Annan, has positively aided the development of young OF prospects? Even if that were true - and I don't think for a moment that it is - it wouldn't justify corrupting the competition away from what it was designed to represent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 8 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Between 18 and 21 players in this country regress,it's also said that under 20's playing against 20's isn't the best for development. The challenge cup gives the young talent more experience against seasoned pros plus playing at a high level. For me it's about the development of players not the teams they play for. It's not the other clubs' jobs to develop these players, nor is it down to the SPFL to do so. It's down to the team they play for. You have not given one benefit to the league. So explain to me how it's a good idea to anyone other than the teams it benefits i.e. the teams who have colts in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: Between 18 and 21 players in this country regress,it's also said that under 20's playing against 20's isn't the best for development. The challenge cup gives the young talent more experience against seasoned pros plus playing at a higher level. For me it's about the development of players not the teams they play for. Your post is reasonable but you cannot argue that if the OF are afforded the opportunity to field teams in league 2 they are not gaining an unfair advantage over the SPFL's other member clubs. Being able to expose their development teams to the rigours of senior football as a cohesive unit attached to their senior clubs is unjustifiable. If any other coupling of two clubs proposed this outwith the OF the response from those clubs would be chilly putting it mildly, however as this proposal was jointly mooted by the OF, they in their belief of entitlement expect the other 40 member clubs to roll over and accept their preposterous proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: So you honestly think that a one-off outmuscling at say Annan, has positively aided the development of young OF prospects? Even if that were true - and I don't think for a moment that it is - it wouldn't justify corrupting the competition away from what it was designed to represent. The last two years hasn't done the competition any harm,you said yourself clubs are quite happy to exist in their own right as a footballing nation we need to create the talent and raise the level of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 15 minutes ago, Randy Giles said: It's not the other clubs' jobs to develop these players, nor is it down to the SPFL to do so. It's down to the team they play for. You have not given one benefit to the league. So explain to me how it's a good idea to anyone other than the teams it benefits i.e. the teams who have colts in it. He can't justify his opinion other than to say in his delusional state if Sellick have proposed it, it must be a good idea, these actions and beliefs are the reason why anti OF fans despise these c***s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Just now, wastecoatwilly said: The last two years hasn't done the competition any harm,you said yourself clubs are quite happy to exist in their own right as a footballing nation we need to create the talent and raise the level of competition. How in hell would you know? The inclusion of the Colts teams has been universally shunned by supporters of other clubs. Clyde even going as far as fielding their own under 21 team in one of the fixtures. Whilst it may be argued that it hasn't harmed the competition (which I clearly disagree with), it cannot be argued that it has in any way, shape or form improved the competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 minute ago, wastecoatwilly said: The last two years hasn't done the competition any harm,you said yourself clubs are quite happy to exist in their own right as a footballing nation we need to create the talent and raise the level of competition. It's not done it any good. I'd say that the esteem in which the competition is held by those that do care, has been diminished. There is literally nothing to suggest that the inclusion of colt sides has raised the level of competition - nothing at all, so don't just glibly say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 49 minutes ago, Clyde01 said: Would you be happy if man united and Liverpool bribed their way into sticking their kids teams into the Scottish Premiership? Sevco would maybe finish 4th at best then lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 3 minutes ago, strichener said: How in hell would you know? The inclusion of the Colts teams has been universally shunned by supporters of other clubs. Clyde even going as far as fielding their own under 21 team in one of the fixtures. Whilst it may be argued that it hasn't harmed the competition (which I clearly disagree with), it cannot be argued that it has in any way, shape or form improved the competition. 3 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: It's not done it any good. I'd say that the esteem in which the competition is held by those that do care, has been diminished. There is literally nothing to suggest that the inclusion of colt sides has raised the level of competition - nothing at all, so don't just glibly say otherwise. It's only been two years,there is a shit load of questions here,every club in Scotland knows were in the food chain they are,full-time or part-time. For me the bigger picture is the players and how they develop,i couldn't care less which team they play for. The loan system could become a draft system in the lower leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 12 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: It's only been two years,there is a shit load of questions here,every club in Scotland knows were in the food chain they are,full-time or part-time. For me the bigger picture is the players and how they develop,i couldn't care less which team they play for. The loan system could become a draft system in the lower leagues. Would you be fine with Barcelona being allowed to enter three teams at CL level? The stuff about the food chain is quite without relevance or purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Would you be fine with Barcelona being allowed to enter three teams at CL level? Think of the battering Celtics goal difference would take then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnold Layne Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said: It's only been two years,there is a shit load of questions here,every club in Scotland knows were in the food chain they are,full-time or part-time. For me the bigger picture is the players and how they develop,i couldn't care less which team they play for. The loan system could become a draft system in the lower leagues. Is that the way you see it, a food chain? Fans of most clubs see it as competitive sport. No expectation or entitlement just the emotional highs and lows of winning and losing. Is it Celtic players you want to see develop or Scottish players? What is this draft system that you are proposing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Gaines Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I'm not having this whataboutery, so I'll ask again and maybe we'll get a straight answer. How is this a good idea for anyone outside of Celtic or Rangers, or anyone else who might get a colt team in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 9 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said: It's only been two years,there is a shit load of questions here,every club in Scotland knows were in the food chain they are,full-time or part-time. For me the bigger picture is the players and how they develop,i couldn't care less which team they play for. The loan system could become a draft system in the lower leagues. So two years isn't enough to judge the 'colts' in the Challenge Cup but two years will be enough to judge Sevco and Celtic 'colts' in League 2 (although how that's judged has yet to be defined)? And no, the loan system could not, could never, become a draft system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spider Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said: Between 18 and 21 players in this country regress,it's also said that under 20's playing against 20's isn't the best for development. The challenge cup gives the young talent more experience against seasoned pros plus playing at a higher level. For me it's about the development of players not the teams they play for. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you genuinely want our young footballers to progress, and aren't just on the wind-up. Most of what you said above is correct, and worthy of support, but for me at any rate has one fatal flaw. If you put physically under-developed players (unless the plan is to fill the Colts teams with mutants), then as the Challenge Cup has proved over the last two seasons young skillful players are getting skelped by teams with a more physical presence and losing 50/50 challenges and headed goals from set pieces (unlike you I've seen several of these games in person and many as highlights). Putting the politics and financial implications to one side for a moment, this proposal will push the development of the these players backwards as they'll start to find out that the best way for them to bypass the physical element is to play a long ball game and either get onto second balls or use their speed to get beyond slower defenders, but that will be no use to them whatsoever when they get to 21 and find themselves having to re-learn how the game is played at a higher level. The best way to develop younger players is by putting them alongside seasoned pros - not up against them with little by way of experience in their own team. The demise of our young players is partly due to the demise of street, park and schools football but also largely due to the demise of the reserve leagues. When the McNeills and Greigs of this world were recovering from injury, they were eased back into the first team after a couple of reserve games, so most young players got used to playing with first team players from their own clubs in a competitive environment, and in the style of football that their club wanted to play. The loan system has tried to re-dress that balance, and in some cases does help a player's development, but many struggle to adapt to a style of play completely different to the way their club likes to play, and by the time they are starting to copme to grips with it as well as recognising how their team-mates play (long-ball to Jimmy, but to feet with his back to goal for John), it's time to go back to their parent club and surprise surprise they struggle with new players and systems and so get punted off to another team on loan to start the cycle again. I know it's not quite as simplistic as that, but I'm a strong believer that Scottish football needs to virtually scrap the loan system and re-direct funds into re-establishing proper reserve leagues, regional if need be. Players need competive games in a familiar environment to develop, and even ignoring the loanees, what about all the others who sit on benches most games, occasionally getting 10 minutes here and there and little else during the course of a season? So part of the problem is the over-loaded benches, becaue that's where the guys who could be playing in a reserve game languish, so while we're at it let's scrap that system too and go back to having two or three guys on the bench other than in the later rounds of cup competitions. Nothing original here, it's all been done before, but it was tried and tested and a lot better than what's being suggested here. For the benefit of Scottish football? My arse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastecoatwilly Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 28 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Would you be fine with Barcelona being allowed to enter three teams at CL level? The stuff about the food chain is quite without relevance or purpose. I couldn't care less about CL level this is about trying to improve Scottish football. The food chain is the means every club runs within. and most of them are happy with the status quo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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