The Aberdeen Mega-Hyper New Stadium Thread

[strichener]

1 minute ago, Illgresi said:

Those who walk or are travelling on public transport will still most likely have to go into the city centre first though, hence they wont have included it. They'll continue to have their breakfast and pints beforehand, and continue to go back into town after the game to have more pints, dinner etc. The city centre will lose an hour before the game and an hour after from most people on public transport.

Not if the shuttle transport setup is to be believed.

[Illgresi]

Just now, strichener said:

Not if the shuttle transport setup is to be believed.

There will be people such as myself who will head to the ground early to go to the supporters bar. Frankly I'd rather give my money to the club. Although I'll still be going into town afterwards, as will most, so the loss of revenue still wont be too severe.

Besides, we live in a capitalist world. It's up to the city centre businesses to address this issue themselves.

[strichener]

12 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

There will be people such as myself who will head to the ground early to go to the supporters bar. Frankly I'd rather give my money to the club. Although I'll still be going into town afterwards, as will most, so the loss of revenue still wont be too severe.

Besides, we live in a capitalist world. It's up to the city centre businesses to address this issue themselves.

And this assumption is based on what?  If this is the case then you should probably write to the club and let them know so that they can resubmit their transport assessment.

ETA: I agree with you regarding the city centre businesses.  However it would be interesting to see how much faith AFC put in their own analysis.  Do you think they would be willing to replace any lost income over the £1.78m that they claim will be the upper amount of loss due to Kingsford?  I think we both know the answer to that.  Also ACC is trying to re-generate the city centre and approving Kingsford will be detrimental to this aim.

Edited January 17, 2018 by strichener

[Illgresi]

33 minutes ago, strichener said:

And this assumption is based on what?  If this is the case then you should probably write to the club and let them know so that they can resubmit their transport assessment.

ETA: I agree with you regarding the city centre businesses.  However it would be interesting to see how much faith AFC put in their own analysis.  Do you think they would be willing to replace any lost income over the £1.78m that they claim will be the upper amount of loss due to Kingsford?  I think we both know the answer to that.  Also ACC is trying to re-generate the city centre and approving Kingsford will be detrimental to this aim.

Based on the apparent evidence of this thread that a large portion of Aberdeen fans are more interested in being able to drink before and after games, than the game itself.

It's not AFC's responsibility to put up that money. Of course if they fund an analysis then it's going to present the best case scenario; every business would do this. It's up to ACC whether they accept this analysis.

The regeneration of a city centre is about adding value 24/7, renovating Pittodrie would perhaps prevent the loss of some revenue for an afternoon every second week for 10 months of the year. Moving the club to Kingsford would open up the space for...400-500 households (pure guesstimate comparing the flats around the south and Merkland)? With an average household income of £23,000 (1), that's in the region of £9m -£10m to the economy, the council will likely be happy with that trade. If they were desperate to keep the club in the city centre, they could do a whole lot more to help keep us there. Things such as closing off the bottom of Pittodrie St could allow the ground to be rotated 90°, and they'd help with funding also. They clearly aren't fussed though.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Illgresi

[strichener]

3 minutes ago, Illgresi said:

Based on the apparent evidence of this thread that a large portion of Aberdeen fans are more interested in being able to drink before and after games, than the game itself[1].

It's not AFC's responsibility to put up that money. Of course if they fund an analysis then it's going to present the best case scenario[2]; every business would do this. It's up to ACC whether they accept this analysis.

The regeneration of a city centre is about adding value 24/7, renovating Pittodrie would perhaps prevent the loss of some revenue for an afternoon every second week for 10 months of the year. Moving the club to Kingsford would open up the space for...400-500 households (pure guesstimate comparing the flats around the south and Merkland)? With an average household income of £23,000 (1), that's in the region of £9m -£10m to the economy, the council will likely be happy with that trade[4]. If they were desperate to keep the club in the city centre, they could do a whole lot more to help keep us there[5]. Things such as closing off the bottom of Pittodrie St could allow the ground to be rotated 90°[6], and they'd help with funding also[7]. They clearly aren't fussed though.[8]

 

[1] Ok, I accept the well-reaserched basis of your assumption.
[2]The figures I posted weren't best case.  £500,000 (OK you can all stop sniggering now) was the best case.
[3] Pittodrie has plans in place for 350 new homes.  John and Shirley moving out of their parents house in King Street to a flat in the former Pittodrie adds absolutely nothing to the economy.  Even if you assume that every flat/house is sold to someone moving to the city then a household income of £23000 does not add £9m to the economy.  There is a vast difference between household income and discretionary spending.
[4] It isn't a trade-off unless you can show that there is an increase in economic activity in the City Centre from the new housing.
[5] I think the indicators from AFC are very clear to the Council.  They have no interest in remaining at the current site.  Why would the council get involved when the owners are not interested?
[6] The existing plans for the houses at the current site already involve re-routing the street, why do you believe that ACC would not be in favour of what you propose.  Have the club ever presented plans to the council or solicited the council's opinion?
[7] On what basis should ACC provide funding to AFC?  Councils are being continually squeezed by the Scottish Government whilst being required to provide more and more services.  Why should it bail out a private company that has neglected their "offices" over decades?
[8] If you are referring to AFC then I agree.

 

[10menwent2mow]

I think you’ll find a lot of the city centre bars where fans congregate will look into running their own buses to Kingsford.

This nonsense about most of the support living within one bus journey of the current ground is just pish. From Kincorth it’s a 20 min bus journey to Union Street then a 35 min walk (very much fag packet google maps inspired maths I’ll grant you) or coming through the city centre which takes a while, getting off at mounthooly for many routes and walking from there. Or as I’m sure what a lot of folk will do, get a bus to town. Have a pint and then get a 1/2 from town.

That’s only taking into account the city based support. What about people from the Shire and even Moray that come to watch the Dons.

I believe that the vast majority of folk who go to Pittodrie have to make a reasonable effort to get there. The vast majority of them will get to Kingsford. Those who have to make an exceptional effort to get there (central belt, Angus, Moray, Aberdeenshire) will wonder what all the fuss is about. Perhaps only for those who it is a convenience that Pittodrie is readily available and on their doorstep won’t bother.

[HibsFan]

Just now, 10menwent2mow said:

That’s only taking into account the city based support. What about people from the Shire and even Moray that come to watch the Dons.

Aberdeen Football Club

I don't see the words "Shire" or "Moray" anywhere there, do you?

Long distance fans (and I was one myself for a few years) make the necessary sacrifices to go and watch their team in the city they've always played in.

[shootingboots]

Some amount of melts from Westhill on this, whether you're for or against, they're an embarrassment. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by shootingboots

[Rodhull]

6 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Aberdeen Football Club

I don't see the words "Shire" or "Moray" anywhere there, do you?

Long distance fans (and I was one myself for a few years) make the necessary sacrifices to go and watch their team in the city they've always played in.

If we're going to this level of pedantry I'm hoping you can see the irony of someone who supports a Scottish based team called Hibernian making this point.

[10menwent2mow]

Aberdeen Football Club
I don't see the words "Shire" or "Moray" anywhere there, do you?
Long distance fans (and I was one myself for a few years) make the necessary sacrifices to go and watch their team in the city they've always played in.

As was I a long distance fan for a while. I couldn’t have given a flying fook if it was Kingsford or Pittodrie when travelling. It was still getting up with a buzz at 8am and not getting home til 10ish.

I’ve enjoyed some cracking days and nights at Pittodrie but I’m certainly not sentimental about it. I’ve had some cracking days and nights at Dens, Tamnadice, Caley etc. Would I care if they went, no.

Ideally a Kingsford type stadium on the Pittodrie site would be great but it is not viable. The very best we could hope for is a Pittodrie mark 2, which would cost us a fortune, maintaining the need for a separate training ground and without the income from the sale of Pittodrie.

[1320Lichtie]

If we're going to this level of pedantry I'm hoping you can see the irony of someone who supports a Scottish based team called Hibernian making this point.

Why?

And pretty sure it’s Hibernian Edinburgh on the badge

[topcat(The most tip top)]

5 minutes ago, Rodhull said:

If we're going to this level of pedantry I'm hoping you can see the irony of someone who supports a Scottish based team called Hibernian making this point.

Careful now

[Rodhull]

4 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Why?

And pretty sure it’s Hibernian Edinburgh on the badge

 

Well I was trying to be light hearted but  it's a pedantic point that doesn't really mean anything. Doesn't really matter what's on their badge, the club's name isn't Hibernian Edinburgh.

[1320Lichtie]

Well I was trying to be light hearted but  it's a pedantic point that doesn't really mean anything. Doesn't really matter what's on their badge, the club's name isn't Hibernian Edinburgh.

Aww, alright. Think he had a point though, it’s Aberdeen Football Club, fans might’ve moved away or come from elsewhere but it’s the cities club at end of day.

[HibsFan]

16 minutes ago, Rodhull said:

If we're going to this level of pedantry I'm hoping you can see the irony of someone who supports a Scottish based team called Hibernian making this point.

If we're going to this level of BIGOTRY I'm hoping you can see the offence that this comment has caused myself and many other proud Irishmen whose ancestors came to this country in search of a better life, not to be hounded off football forums by raging hibernophobes such as yourself.

[Rodhull]

12 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Aww, alright. Think he had a point though, it’s Aberdeen Football Club, fans might’ve moved away or come from elsewhere but it’s the cities club at end of day.
 

 

I mean sure, ideally it would but I think it's not much of an issue (team name pedantry wise) when it's only moving to the outskirts of the city to somewhere that will likely be considered a suburb of the city in about 20 years or so as the city expands. Not like they're relocating to Elgin or something.

[EdTheDuck]

Live reporting from today's meeting at ACC HQ.

Much as I'm against the move to a "prime"* location in the middle of fucking nowhere, the antis really are a bunch of cocks.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/live-kingsford-stadium-pre-determination-hearing4/

* for a given value of prime not pre-determined by a humourless, takes-everything-literally, stuck-up bumpkin.

[PauloPerth]

City centres should be where the major sporting/ cultural/ leisure facilities are. Otherwise all you're left with are tightly packed houses with a few shite shops. The past few decades have seen this great desire to move everything away out to the ring roads; retail parks, stadia, large supermarkets, cinemas etc etc because its cheaper land, has plenty of space for car parking, and is convenient for people from outwith the city to get to.

All you end up with are similar to what America has; just large sprawling half-built up areas that go on for ages with identical retail and leisure parks every few miles, and no real separation between urban and rural areas. 

As someone mentioned a few pages back, city centres have the shops, bars, restaurants, bus and rail stations all in place, yet the desire is to ignore all that and build everything up from scratch?

The city council should be doing everything in their power to keep Aberdeen where they are, and to provide support and guidance in developing Pittodrie. After all, the football club has done more to raise the profile of the town and area than anything else (apart from the oil industry) over the past 3-4 decades.  43,000 Aberdeen fans were at a recent Cup final; if the majority of them constantly emailed and lobbied the city council you'd surely start to see more Council support.  Look at the impact and profile of a couple of hundred dafties from westhill.

[PauloPerth]

13 minutes ago, EdTheDuck said:

Live reporting from today's meeting at ACC HQ.

Much as I'm against the move to a "prime"* location in the middle of fucking nowhere, the antis really are a bunch of cocks.

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/live-kingsford-stadium-pre-determination-hearing4/

* for a given value of prime not pre-determined by a humourless, takes-everything-literally, stuck-up bumpkin.

That speaker at 12.16 was a brilliant runner in his day, apparently no one ever caught him

[Illgresi]

1 hour ago, strichener said:

 

[1] Ok, I accept the well-reaserched basis of your assumption.
[2]The figures I posted weren't best case.  £500,000 (OK you can all stop sniggering now) was the best case.
[3] Pittodrie has plans in place for 350 new homes.  John and Shirley moving out of their parents house in King Street to a flat in the former Pittodrie adds absolutely nothing to the economy.  Even if you assume that every flat/house is sold to someone moving to the city then a household income of £23000 does not add £9m to the economy.  There is a vast difference between household income and discretionary spending.
[4] It isn't a trade-off unless you can show that there is an increase in economic activity in the City Centre from the new housing.
[5] I think the indicators from AFC are very clear to the Council.  They have no interest in remaining at the current site.  Why would the council get involved when the owners are not interested?
[6] The existing plans for the houses at the current site already involve re-routing the street, why do you believe that ACC would not be in favour of what you propose.  Have the club ever presented plans to the council or solicited the council's opinion?
[7] On what basis should ACC provide funding to AFC?  Councils are being continually squeezed by the Scottish Government whilst being required to provide more and more services.  Why should it bail out a private company that has neglected their "offices" over decades?
[8] If you are referring to AFC then I agree.

 

[1] I'm glad you accept that the basis of my assumption has the same level of fact to back it up as every post made by yourself and everyone else in this thread; be it for or against.

[2] "Best case" can be a range of figures

[3] John and Shirley perform work, and further the business goals of their employer. In return they receive money, a portion of which goes to the government which Theresa May uses to limit our internet freedom. A further portion of which goes to ACC, which Willie Young pockets. More still goes to landlords, energy companies, first bus etc. Some of the left over money might fund a trip to a pub or local restaurant. Some might even make its way into a savings account. Every single aspect of a salary fuels the economy, from receiving it, down to every little way in which it is distributed. That's why a country's wealth is measure in Gross Domestic Product, not Total Disposable Income.

[4] While I accept your premise that not everyone moving into these flats will be from outside the city, I don't accept you conclusion that this isn't a fair trade off. There is a quite evident and strong relationship between the construction industry and economic growth, as a two minute google shows (1).

[5] The indicators are clear from AFC because in its current state, they believe redevelopment of Pittodrie, and the land on which it lies to be unfeasible. If the council gave them the option to redevelop and it made financial sense, of course AFC would stay where they are.

[6] I don't know, I'm not a member of the AFC board.

[7,8] It's not a matter of whether they should or they shouldn't, it's a matter of whether they felt there would be an economic benefit to AFC remaining at Pittodrie, then it would make sense to. ACC clearly don't think there would be an economic benefit to AFC staying put, and thus haven't worked with the club to find ways to remain at the current site. Hence why I suspect ACC would rather have houses on the site.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Illgresi