May and June face Peru & Mexico

[senorsoupe]

2 hours ago, the snudge said:

Any other Scots playing in the states that could show up? Callum Mallace? 

Ooft, that's scraping the bottom of the barrell.  I remember Mallace from his Montreal Impact days and he was pretty lousy

[Burnie_man]

2 hours ago, Marshmallo said:

Playing games at this time of the season is fine but playing them in Mexico and Peru is a nonsense. It was always going to be the case that you'd have withdrawals. Surely there were teams we could've played either at home or in Europe to make it easier for fans and players? 

I'd like to see those called up being more committed but this is hardly a surprise. It's purely a cash grab by the SFA.

This is about cash of course, the appearance money will be good for the SFA, but it will also be about giving players new experiences to help them develop, particularly the younger ones. Malky Mackay has touched on that in the past. How often does a Scottish footballer get a chance to play in front of 60,000 in South America or at the Azteca?  Not very often.

Would these players be withdrawing if we were about the undertake some warm-up games before we went to Russia? I have my doubts. Craig Brown used to take the team to the USA before Finals.

There is also the little matter that next year we will be playing two Euro2020 qualifiers deep into June. Will they need a rest then?

The lack of commitment in Scotland has always been a concern. Someone above mentioned Beckham and his absolute commitment to England, the closest we probably had to that recently is Darren Fletcher, very few others.   We have Scott Brown "retiring"  - again - and he is captain. What sort of example did that set exactly?

Depressing stuff, but also a little amateur of McLeish not going out and speaking to players about the aims of this trip and checking their availability to try and avoid an embarrassing number of withdrawals, which is the point we're at now.

[Jaggy Snake]

I can’t agree with the criticism of the friendlies chosen. As others have said, a lot of Scottish players won’t get another chance to play football in Central/South America which should be a selling point (for want of a better word) to encourage players to be there. If we were playing Brazil or Argentina you can guarantee there would be far fewer drop outs but Mexico and Peru are actually a very good level of side for us to play.

From a development point of view, there’s only a handful of Scottish internationalists that actually play in European competition with their clubs so, any chance to get players additional experience playing away from home should be grabbed with both hands.

Take John Souttar, for example, who has dropped out the squad. I personally am not a fan of his but some people still think he could develop into a useful centreback for Scotland. His current idea of a tough away fixture is Celtic or Aberdeen, a couple of hours from home. If he gets into a squad for qualifying games we’d expect him to be able to go away to Lithuania/Slovakia/whoever else we get drawn against and perform to his normal level, with basically no experience in that kind of situation.

Part of the problem is perception. I can understand why some of the Celtic players might be omitted from the squad but it does have a detrimental effect on the rest. If any other players had slight doubts in going they’d look at the big players missing from the squad and figure that it doesn’t really matter in the long run.

I don’t buy the argument of clubs putting pressure on players not to go. If any player really wants to play for their country, their club won’t stop them. The club would always back down if the player insists because (a) you don’t want to upset your own player and, (b) if they block the player going, the player could just leak it to the media and the club would open itself to a lot of criticism.

[JamesM82]

There weren't any Celtic (or Aberdeen) players in the squad at the same time two years ago, when the games were played in Malta (v Italy) and France. "They would have come if the games were in Europe" is a complete red herring.

The only way to get players to turn up more often is to be more successful => makes the games more important and the players want to be there.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36269191

[Gordopolis]

6 hours ago, gannonball said:

The last game they had at the azteca the attendance was less than half that and that was for a world cup qualifier.

Think they've sold out for this one thought as it's their send off game

3 hours ago, senorsoupe said:

Ooft, that's scraping the bottom of the barrell.  I remember Mallace from his Montreal Impact days and he was pretty lousy

Didn't have much impact there, did he?

3 hours ago, Burnie_man said:

This is about cash of course, the appearance money will be good for the SFA, but it will also be about giving players new experiences to help them develop, particularly the younger ones. Malky Mackay has touched on that in the past. How often does a Scottish footballer get a chance to play in front of 60,000 in South America or at the Azteca?  Not very often.

Would these players be withdrawing if we were about the undertake some warm-up games before we went to Russia? I have my doubts. Craig Brown used to take the team to the USA before Finals.

There is also the little matter that next year we will be playing two Euro2020 qualifiers deep into June. Will they need a rest then?

The lack of commitment in Scotland has always been a concern. Someone above mentioned Beckham and his absolute commitment to England, the closest we probably had to that recently is Darren Fletcher, very few others.   We have Scott Brown "retiring"  - again - and he is captain. What sort of example did that set exactly?

Depressing stuff, but also a little amateur of McLeish not going out and speaking to players about the aims of this trip and checking their availability to try and avoid an embarrassing number of withdrawals, which is the point we're at now.

I had forgotten about Fletcher. Wonder why he wasn't given a call. I bet he'd have turned up.

[Gordopolis]

External processor.

Sounds rank. I prefer rice krispies.

[senorsoupe]

46 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Didn't have much impact there, did he?

lol, I see what you did there.  I just remember his passing being atrocious, which is problematic for a midfielder.  This was a few years ago but looking at his stats he hasn't been a regular at MLS level in a couple of years. 

[Peppino Impastato]

7 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So what we have here is a trip that pays for itself plus the self interest is in full swing to hang with the consequences of qualifying and point the finger at the players for their commitment.
Fecking great start to a new campaign.  

 No it's you that's saying it will be damaging to our chances of qualifying.  Which is obviously nonsense.

[Peppino Impastato]

7 hours ago, The Moonster said:

 

I'm not sure this conspiracy is adding up. You say no club would not sign a player based on them being adamant that they want to represent their country at every opportunity yet in your next post suggest that clubs are pulling players from squads against their will?

 

No flies on you champ

[Peppino Impastato]

5 hours ago, Jaggy Snake said:

I can’t agree with the criticism of the friendlies chosen. As others have said, a lot of Scottish players won’t get another chance to play football in Central/South America which should be a selling point (for want of a better word) to encourage players to be there. If we were playing Brazil or Argentina you can guarantee there would be far fewer drop outs but Mexico and Peru are actually a very good level of side for us to play.

From a development point of view, there’s only a handful of Scottish internationalists that actually play in European competition with their clubs so, any chance to get players additional experience playing away from home should be grabbed with both hands.

Take John Souttar, for example, who has dropped out the squad. I personally am not a fan of his but some people still think he could develop into a useful centreback for Scotland. His current idea of a tough away fixture is Celtic or Aberdeen, a couple of hours from home. If he gets into a squad for qualifying games we’d expect him to be able to go away to Lithuania/Slovakia/whoever else we get drawn against and perform to his normal level, with basically no experience in that kind of situation.

Part of the problem is perception. I can understand why some of the Celtic players might be omitted from the squad but it does have a detrimental effect on the rest. If any other players had slight doubts in going they’d look at the big players missing from the squad and figure that it doesn’t really matter in the long run.

I don’t buy the argument of clubs putting pressure on players not to go. If any player really wants to play for their country, their club won’t stop them. The club would always back down if the player insists because (a) you don’t want to upset your own player and, (b) if they block the player going, the player could just leak it to the media and the club would open itself to a lot of criticism.

Souttar I can totally understand, he's obviously negotiating a move and hearts don't want to lose a million Quid the buying team want him fit and he doesn't want to lose a five year deal that will set him up for life.

You don't really get how it works with clubs though.  It's more subtle but very clear.

[The Algebraist]

2 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

7 hours ago, The Algebraist said:

External processor.

Sounds rank. I prefer rice krispies.

They're similar. Just mainly crackle.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

I had forgotten about Fletcher. Wonder why he wasn't given a call. I bet he'd have turned up.

He is finished

[Burnie_man]

9 hours ago, DAVIDB69 said:

 

 

He is finished

 

No, he's only 34.

Seriously, he is the type of experience we need for this tour given all the withdrawals. Make him captain and that can be his swansong.

[velo army]

20 hours ago, forameus said:

I took a look at this after hearing people complain on another forum about the choice of friendly, think it's quite interesting to look at

tl;dr - if we look at it from the perspective of boosting our ranking, which every friendly from now on should be, then there weren't really any options to play close by.  Of course, whether they were available when the SFA booked these ones is something we're never going to know for sure, but given how slow they usually are, I wouldn't be surprised if these were the best remaining options.

Of course, feel free to pick any of the gaping holes that are present in my logic.

Unsure how to quote your quoted post in here (I'm lousy/lazy with computers) but I hadn't considered the factor of ranking points and with that in mind this group of friendlies actually makes sense.

It makes me even more irked at players calling off. I understand Armstrong, to an extent (recently back from injury), but we really need a stronger squad if we're to have a chance of taking anything from this game.

Really fine argument, actually, but it would have been nice if the SFA had been clear as to why these opponents were chosen, which would have done away with a lot of the bad feeling towards it, and would have possibly mitigated the number of call offs.

It could be, however, that the SFA didn't even consider the ranking ramifications, and they are in fact as myopic as they're said to be. I don't recall anyone in the SFA comms department even mentioning how important this would be to our ranking.

[wastecoatwilly]

14 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

 No it's you that's saying it will be damaging to our chances of qualifying.  Which is obviously nonsense.

There is positives and negatives to everything, for me there is more negatives than positives to this trip,the squad that's going is very weak, i hope we get 3 or 4 players that prove they can play at this level,the limited time Scotland gets to play games is the biggest concern plus the players that are not on this trip,I have been banging the drum for more Scottish based players to be given a chance for me it will be too easy to disregard them if this ends bad. 

[the snudge]

Does anyone have a full list of the squad we have after the drop outs? 

[Gordopolis]

16 hours ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Souttar I can totally understand, he's obviously negotiating a move and hearts don't want to lose a million Quid the buying team want him fit and he doesn't want to lose a five year deal that will set him up for life.

You don't really get how it works with clubs though.  It's more subtle but very clear.

Is Souttar on the move? Where to?

11 hours ago, DAVIDB69 said:

 

He is finished

 

Oli Burke or Ryan Gauld thread for this pish

[Peppino Impastato]

39 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Is Souttar on the move? Where to?

Oli Burke or Ryan Gauld thread for this pish

If he's fit definitely.  Derby were interested for 1.2 million and levein said in about march he's ready for a move to England so he will probably go.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Didn’t mcleish and McFadden say players withdrawing would put their places in jeopardy for the competitive stuff

[skippy2015]

Didn’t mcleish and McFadden say players withdrawing would put their places in jeopardy for the competitive stuff

That’s the way it should be - all respect to gordon strachan under his leadership there wasn’t many call offs and he got what he thought was his best team on the pitch most of the time.

This has been a trend for weak Scottish managers in the past for example Levein vogts and burley. Hopefully Mcleish can get an atmosphere where players love playing for their country and want to turn up regardless of whether it’s a friendly.

It could go the other way however with retirements call offs and banishments !!! Ie the steven Fletchers Barry Ferguson’s David Robertson’s Duncan Ferguson’s Alan mcgregors etc etc