May and June face Peru & Mexico

[Rodhull]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

If you can look at this from the point of view that if we had qualified for the world cup the squad that's going would look very different from the squad that is staying at home you can't have it both ways.

Given that I doubt we'd be travelling to North and South America if we were about to play in the world cup and we wouldn't have gotten rid of Strachan had we qilualified then yeah it wouldn't surprise me the squads being different. Kind of a weird point to make.

Again that doesn't prove either way that players are dropping out because of McLeish. Most have been rested and some if nursing slight injuries probably don't fancy the trip.

[Guest DAVIDB69]

Scotland play less games than the other uk nations mainly because we never qualify for things . However I have never understood why our players get extra tired compare to every other country

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, Rodhull said:

Given that I doubt we'd be travelling to North and South America if we were about to play in the world cup and we wouldn't have gotten rid of Strachan had we qilualified then yeah it wouldn't surprise me the squads being different. Kind of a weird point to make.

Again that doesn't prove either way that players are dropping out because of McLeish. Most have been rested and some if nursing slight injuries probably don't fancy the trip.

You have just pointed out the mistakes that have already been made with the limited time the Scotland squad gets together, everything should be geared towards the first qualifier yet  the squad going to Peru and Mexico I doubt it will bare any resemblance to the squad that is picked to face Albania.

[BucksburnDandy]

Media and plenty supporters are criticising the friendlies being arranged. To me this misses the point: surely criticism should be levelled at the players who are withdrawing?

It's not like it's an unusual idea to play friendlies now - most nations will be playing including many that have not qualified for WC2018, and many will be doing so considerably deeper into the post-season than we are. Even within the British Isles we find Wales and Northern Ireland also travelling to the Americas; Eire are visiting France then hosting USA.

If we weren't playing now, we'd have gone 6 months without a game by time NL started (and it's only by chance we're in 3-team group and idle the opening day to have a friendly v Belgium) and only played twice in preceding 10 months.


As it stands we've now just 1 player in the entire squad with serious experience (Mulgrew) and only 3 more with any notable experience at all to speak of (and 2 of those are McGinn and Paterson - the other Phillips). Wales, Northern Ireland, Eire are nothing like so badly depleted. With a new manager you'd expect extra motivation, too?

People are always looking for reasons why we haven't qualified for 20yrs, and not playing enough games was a good example. Perhaps a lack of total commitment from the players is another?

Bang on HibeeJibee. There is a real lack of commitment from our players. There are genuine reasons such as Robertson being in the CL final but the likes of Ritchie and Fraser pull out of the squad far too often for it to be just injuries.

Totally frustrating as we feel further away than ever before from qualifying. 26 years old and I barely remember the 98 World Cup. A whole generation of fans have been starved of the joy of qualification.

[Rodhull]

45 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

You have just pointed out the mistakes that have already been made with the limited time the Scotland squad gets together, everything should be geared towards the first qualifier yet  the squad going to Peru and Mexico I doubt it will bare any resemblance to the squad that is picked to face Albania.

Noone is saying these fixtures were a good idea though. It's not like McLeish would have hand picked these fixtures so not really sure what this has to do with your original point of the dropouts being due to McLeish being a weak manager.

[Gordopolis]

I'm usually hopelessly optimistic when it comes to Scotland, but I just had a look at Mexico's squad:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_national_football_team#Current_squad

1483 caps for them vs 75 for us

213 goals for them vs 3 for us

Lewis Stevenson vs Chicharito with 87,000 home fans going crazy in the stands...

...we're going to get bummed.

[Peppino Impastato]

Absolute shocker Celtic only allow the two players who never get a game for them to go.  Didn't expect that at all.

[Enigma]

Wonder how different the squad would be if we had, say, a home game at Easter Road v Iceland and then a game away to let’s say Norway.

[JamesM82]

2 hours ago, DAVIDB69 said:

Scotland play less games than the other uk nations mainly because we never qualify for things . However I have never understood why our players get extra tired compare to every other country

You might not like it, but a big chunk of our first choice squad play for Celtic. Their most important games each year are the CL qualifiers, which start in early July. 

Wales or NI don't have that issue. With the odd exception, their players won't play a proper game until early August.

Even then, they're still under-strength for these end-of-season games. Wales have several players involved in playoffs and the CL final, while Steven Davis and Chris Brunt are just being rested outright.

[wastecoatwilly]

55 minutes ago, Rodhull said:

Noone is saying these fixtures were a good idea though. It's not like McLeish would have hand picked these fixtures so not really sure what this has to do with your original point of the dropouts being due to McLeish being a weak manager.

I believe this pool of players can get Scotland to a major international football tournament
I don't believe the decisions being made by the SFA are helping Scotland get there.

[HibeeJibee]

1 hour ago, Gordopolis said:

I'm usually hopelessly optimistic when it comes to Scotland, but I just had a look at Mexico's squad:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico_national_football_team#Current_squad

1483 caps for them vs 75 for us

213 goals for them vs 3 for us

Lewis Stevenson vs Chicharito with 87,000 home fans going crazy in the stands...

...we're going to get bummed.

Startlingly, we've potentially had more experienced Scotland "B" squads down the years!

[the snudge]

We'd be aswell playing mcfadden in the 2 games and get him in the hall of fame

[forameus]

11 hours ago, Enigma said:

Wonder how different the squad would be if we had, say, a home game at Easter Road v Iceland and then a game away to let’s say Norway.

I don't think it would have been a huge amount different to be honest, certainly not to the degree that some are wailing about.

[Gordopolis]

Danny Wilson and Sam Nicholson being considered to plug the gaps in the squad. Makes sense as they're both US-based.

[forameus]

Alex McLeish, waiting at the docks in New York, looking for any Scots chasing the American dream coming off the boats.  "Want a game pal?"

[Enigma]

Aye both play for one of the poorer MLS outfits. Saw half a game recently, Wilson looked alright but Nicholson was subbed having not done a lot.

[The Algebraist]

Tbh I think people complaining about players' commitment would do well to consider it from their perspective. People have other things in their lives apart from their jobs, even if those jobs are well paid and good fun.

I play a different sport at a half decent amateur level and by March I am struggling with a list of stuff I've been needing to do on a Saturday for ages. Stuff like "take car to garage" and "hang out with wife and small child that calls me daddy." What we're talking about here is travelling thousands of miles across two continents in June ffs.

In the grand scheme of things these games are unlikely to matter much. They look special to us because we're not anywhere near playing for the national team, but to most players it's going to look like work, very far away, at a time of year when work is usually over. If it was going to be my first cap or I was just getting established I would be there, otherwise my reaction would likely be that  long way to go on likely a hiding to nothing.

Knowing me I would drag myself along a bit reluctantly secretly jealous of the folk who decided not to go. I would then enjoy it when I got there.

[Peppino Impastato]

33 minutes ago, The Algebraist said:

Tbh I think people complaining about players' commitment would do well to consider it from their perspective. People have other things in their lives apart from their jobs, even if those jobs are well paid and good fun.

I play a different sport at a half decent amateur level and by March I am struggling with a list of stuff I've been needing to do on a Saturday for ages. Stuff like "take car to garage" and "hang out with wife and small child that calls me daddy." What we're talking about here is travelling thousands of miles across two continents in June ffs.

In the grand scheme of things these games are unlikely to matter much. They look special to us because we're not anywhere near playing for the national team, but to most players it's going to look like work, very far away, at a time of year when work is usually over. If it was going to be my first cap or I was just getting established I would be there, otherwise my reaction would likely be that  long way to go on likely a hiding to nothing.

Knowing me I would drag myself along a bit reluctantly secretly jealous of the folk who decided not to go. I would then enjoy it when I got there.

Aye but they're not at a semi decent amatuer level they're at the top of the professional game, are paid ten grand a week and it's an intl date anyway.  The only difference is a few hours on a plane. 

 

Plus it's the clubs pulling them out not the players deciding not to go.  Armstrong was miraculously fit enough to come off the bench in the Scottish cup final on Saturday and finish the game then withdrawn 'injured' within 36 hours.  I wonder if he played in Scott browns testimonial on Sunday.

[The Algebraist]

13 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Aye but they're not at a semi decent amatuer level they're at the top of the professional game, are paid ten grand a week and it's an intl date anyway.  The only difference is a few hours on a plane. 

Plus it's the clubs pulling them out not the players deciding not to go.  Armstrong was miraculously fit enough to come off the bench in the Scottish cup final on Saturday and finish the game then withdrawn 'injured' within 36 hours.  I wonder if he played in Scott browns testimonial on Sunday.

It doesn't really matter how much they're paid, they are just people, and for most people work is still work. Well paid people sometimes feel that more than most because they feel inadequate compared to the complete fortune they are making. For others it's amazing what you can get used to.

I wonder if Armstrong has exams for his law degree, it's that time of year. Of course I have no clue.

[Peppino Impastato]

Just now, The Algebraist said:

It doesn't really matter how much they're paid, they are just people, and for most people work is still work. Well paid people sometimes feel that more than most because they feel inadequate compared to the complete fortune they are making. For others it's amazing what you can get used to.

I wonder if Armstrong has exams for his law degree, it's that time of year. Of course I have no clue.

No it's not.  They don't have a 'job'.   I believe Armstrong finished his degree anyway.  They've been withdrawn by their clubs who are showing utter contempt for Scotland, Celtic primarily, as usual.