VAR

[Spectre]

17 minutes ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

This but it's not just that.

VAR will become more and more prevalent for one reason - it's an advantage to the big teams.  The more decisions are 'corrected' with VAR, the less likely teams of lesser quality will be able to compete with teams of higher quality.

 

Im unconvinced by your argument here. I think the bigger teams are more likely to get a big advantage due referees being influenced by larger fan bases. I do understand that excitement can be generated from poor decisions. But, I think it is madness if you deliberately want rules to be enforced poorly.

[Dunning1874]

4 minutes ago, Spectre said:

But, I think it is madness if you deliberately want rules to be enforced poorly.

This.

I understand and completely join in with the hilarity of other teams being wronged, but surely the only people who seriously make the 'wrong decisions are part of the excitement of football' argument for any reason other than that schadenfreude are balding beetroot faced baby boomers from Lancashire?

[Jambomo]

43 minutes ago, Spectre said:

 

Im unconvinced by your argument here. I think the bigger teams are more likely to get a big advantage due referees being influenced by larger fan bases. I do understand that excitement can be generated from poor decisions. But, I think it is madness if you deliberately want rules to be enforced poorly.

I think in fairness, that is part of a problem they have seen in the last season in Germany. The decision to go to VAR or not is still in the refs hands (although it seems that it is slightly different here) and there were a number of times the REF simply refused to check what seemed to be clear mistakes. I think they plan to get rid of it for the forthcoming season. 

[Blootoon87]

This.
I understand and completely join in with the hilarity of other teams being wronged, but surely the only people who seriously make the 'wrong decisions are part of the excitement of football' argument for any reason other than that schadenfreude are balding beetroot faced baby boomers from Lancashire?

I'm in the schadenfreude camp.

[Ya Bezzer!]

1 hour ago, Spectre said:

 

Im unconvinced by your argument here. I think the bigger teams are more likely to get a big advantage due referees being influenced by larger fan bases. I do understand that excitement can be generated from poor decisions. But, I think it is madness if you deliberately want rules to be enforced poorly.

It only stands to reason that the more possession you have, or the more time you spend in or around the opposition box, the more beneficial decisions you'll get.  

If teams in that situation now get 85% of the decisions due to them under VAR they will get 95% - reducing the possibility of minnows defeating giants since they rarely win from going toe to toe.

Occasionally teams benefit from poor decisions in their favour but I'd say there are far more decisions missed entirely than completely wrong decisions made.  You might disagree with that but that's my feeling from watching matches.

[Spectre]

2 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

It only stands to reason that the more possession you have, or the more time you spend in or around the opposition box, the more beneficial decisions you'll get.  

If teams in that situation now get 85% of the decisions due to them under VAR they will get 95% - reducing the possibility of minnows defeating giants since they rarely win from going toe to toe.

Occasionally teams benefit from poor decisions in their favour but I'd say there are far more decisions missed entirely than completely wrong decisions made.  You might disagree with that but that's my feeling from watching matches.

I think thats a fair assumption backed up by the number of penalties we have had this world cup.  But I think if you will always have upsets, and, you are probably not giving enough credit to the underdogs that do win which I think is rarely down to stronger teams not getting penalty decisions. And, I often think that stronger teams get out of jail because of a dodgy decision like a red card or penalty. Admittedly, I have no statistics to back that up. 

[heedthebaa]

VAR was always going to come, all down to the amount of cameras inside the ground, analysing every incident from all angles. Let’s get back to the one camera, high up in the stand, showing the game from afar, just like the good old days 

[nsr]

I predict that even with VAR we're still going to see terrible decisions, clear fouls inexplicably ignored and 50/50 decisions given one way or the other with no apparent explanation.

[HIT THE CHANNEL]

It is the classic slippery slope. It is working ok just now. But how long until blocks are checked because whether its a goal kick or  corner is a huge call in the last few minutes when a team needs a goal! Maybe it will be able to be checked instantaneously in the future and all will be swell.

 

I am glad though  that this will never be a major weekly issue for me cos I support a shiter that will never be involved (again) in European football against the big boys (like we have been with Bayern in the past) ever week. Imagine never being able to celebrate a goal fully mental knowing it would be contested? 

[The Golden God]

It's obviously not going to be perfect especially at the start but I'm for anything that makes the game fairer.  Sure the Ireland fans were fine with Henry's handball and missing a World Cup because it's "just part of the game". Too much money etc on the line these days for us to just ignore the technology which will make the game much fairer.

[Uncle Psychosis]

6 hours ago, The Golden God said:

It's obviously not going to be perfect especially at the start but I'm for anything that makes the game fairer.  Sure the Ireland fans were fine with Henry's handball and missing a World Cup because it's "just part of the game". 

Why not? They were absolutely fine with the disgraceful penalty decision that got them a win against Georgia earlier in that campaign. The Irish FA didn't insist that game should have been replayed so can only assume they're happy with dodgy decisions... 

[accies1874]

9 hours ago, HIT THE CHANNEL said:

 Imagine never being able to celebrate a goal fully mental knowing it would be contested? 

This was an argument people had before this tournament, and it's something I was a bit worried about, but I don't think we've seen that happen once. If a player scores a goal this tournament, they still celebrate accordingly. 

VAR just means that players' celebrations can be cut short, which is always fun to watch. 

[Tony Ferrino]

15 hours ago, Blootoon87 said:

16 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

This.
I understand and completely join in with the hilarity of other teams being wronged, but surely the only people who seriously make the 'wrong decisions are part of the excitement of football' argument for any reason other than that schadenfreude are balding beetroot faced baby boomers from Lancashire?

I'm in the schadenfreude camp.

Can't  the words "schadenfreude" and "camp" when used together just be replaced with "bitch"?

[Merkie84]

V.A.R will be fine untill England get a goal chopped off using it then there will be a concerted effort to get rid. 

Cant wait.

[Nowhereman]

21 hours ago, Dunning1874 said:

I love watching a team go mental about an obvious injustice and watching it develop into a persecution complex, particularly when it's a team I hate, but VAR is an obvious improvement to applying the rules and teams are still going mental anyway.

Prior to the nonsense decision to give Australia a penalty today, which was an error on the part of the officials rather than the technology itself, every decision made using VAR has been correct and other than the disallowed Iran goal hasn't wasted much time. It's clearly working as it should and the problem hasn't been an over-reliance on it but referees failing to use it enough when they've missed something, such as the Argentina v Iceland game.

It's been a success and the salty tears from English pundits over it because their officials are too incompetent to work with an entirely simple and useful system are immensely pleasing.

Is it not up to the officials watching the video to bring an error to the refs attention rather than up to the ref to ask?

[Diamonds are Forever]

I get the concerns with how to use it within a game, it's impact on the flow of the game etc, but a few times now I've seen people arguing against it because it will mean that there won't be enough wrong decisions anymore. I find that the most ridiculous argument which just leads to a whole load of other questions. If wrong decisions add to the drama then why bother with goal line technology? Why bother training referees at all? Why not give Andrew Dallas the World Cup Final?

The aim should always be to apply the laws of the game as accurately, constistently and as fairly as possible, whilst not ruining the flow of the game.  VAR in it's current form isn't perfect, but the more it is used the better it will become as the issues are ironed out. Overall I like it, there are more correct decisions, less people will get away with cheating like Neymar today, and in some ways it can actually improve the flow of the game as refs will let things like marginal offsides go, and only pull it back if it comes to something and it needs checked.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, Merkie84 said:

V.A.R will be fine untill England get a goal chopped off using it then there will be a concerted effort to get rid. 

Cant wait.

Chalked off.

[Flybhoy]

[sparky88]

On 21/06/2018 at 22:47, nsr said:

I predict that even with VAR we're still going to see terrible decisions, clear fouls inexplicably ignored and 50/50 decisions given one way or the other with no apparent explanation.

This. 

The idea that having VAR = correct decisions  is hopelessly misguided. There's been plenty of decisions open to interpretation already in the World Cup and all it has done is take up game time which isn't all added on in injury time. 

[vikingTON]

Except that nobody has claimed that VAR = correct decisions. The obvious fucking clue is in the name: video assistant referee; it isn't 'video refereeing'. The basis by which VAR should be judged is whether it is useful in assisting the match officials to make more correct decisions than they would manage subject to understandable human error and oversights; so far, it has been a resounding success.