What is the point of Labour ?

[strichener]

3 minutes ago, lichtgilphead said:

Whilst I can't spot it in the 2019 manifesto, it is on the Constitution page on the SNP website

https://www.snp.org/our-vision/constitution/

We continue to work for democratic reform too. We believe that the House of Lords is an affront to democracy and should be abolished. We will continue to call for the first past the post voting system to be replaced at Westminster with proportional representation, so that every vote and every part of the country counts. We have already extended the franchise in Scottish and local elections to 16 and 17 year olds and will use new powers to protect the voting rights of EU citizens too.

I wouldn't believe what you read on websites.  I once heard of an organisation that duped people into paying hundreds of thousands of pounds to fund a referendum campaign and then spent frivolously on expensive cars and unused motorhomes.  

[CambieBud]

So any criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza or the West Bank is antisemitism? Is this Starmer’s position? 
I assume that if an Israeli citizen were to commit a crime in London, he/she cannot be prosecuted as that would constitute antisemitism.

[lichtgilphead]

13 minutes ago, strichener said:

I wouldn't believe what you read on websites.  I once heard of an organisation that duped people into paying hundreds of thousands of pounds to fund a referendum campaign and then spent frivolously on expensive cars and unused motorhomes.  

I hope that they were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Can you point me toward the relevant judgements - they should be available here on the Scottish Courts website

(2nd version of post - quoted @CambieBud in error first time. Sorry!)

[Dunning1874]

9 hours ago, CambieBud said:

So any criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza or the West Bank is antisemitism? Is this Starmer’s position? 
I assume that if an Israeli citizen were to commit a crime in London, he/she cannot be prosecuted as that would constitute antisemitism.

Thought this nicely summarised the mess they've put themselves in:

 

 

[Dunning1874]

Have just seen an unironic "how can Starmer be held responsible for the personal views of Labour members?! This is a ridiculous standard to hold a leader to!" in the wild.

Yes, curious. If only Keir Starmer had been involved in a situation like this before, would be awkward if he had squeezed the toothpaste out all over the sink on that occasion.

[Wee Bully]

17 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

Absolutely crazy stuff !

Isn’t the issue here that the quote is about “people in the media from certain Jewish quarters”, again conflating Israel and Zionism with the wider  Jewish community?

[Billy Jean King]

2 hours ago, Wee Bully said:

Isn’t the issue here that the quote is about “people in the media from certain Jewish quarters”, again conflating Israel and Zionism with the wider  Jewish community?

There's several issues but the overall calling for all party activists who were at the meeting to be suspended for not calling out what you rightly point out is the continued conflation of Israel with the Jewish religion is absolutely wild !

[DeeTillEhDeh]

On 08/02/2024 at 10:08, Salt n Vinegar said:

Maybe Labour need a different approach to policies?

As they appear unwilling to confirm anything (because they don't know what the state of the economy will be like "when" they take office,) maybe they could list, say, 10 things they WILL do, in order of implementation, IF the funds are there.  

Could they do that?  What are, say, the top 3 things they'll definitely do if the cash is there? Anyone know? I'll be Donald Ducked if I know.

This is one of the fundamental differences between Labour today and Labour in 1997.

I know some have said that Labour are just trying to not rock the boat like 97 - but the key difference is that even the principleless Blair knew he couldn't bin every policy inherited from John Smith.

The other key difference is that voters in 97 were enthusiastic about a Labour Government - I genuinely believe they aren't this time.  Labour's lead is built on quick sand, reliant on hatred for the Tories and not on voters choosing policies.  I'm still not sure that the next election is the shoe-in that some think - events this week show how fragile Labour really are.

Edited February 15 by DeeTillEhDeh

[CambieBud]

1 hour ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

This is one of the fundamental differences between Labour today and Labour in 1997.

I know some have said that Labour are just trying to not rock the boat like 97 - but the key difference is that even the principleless Blair knew he couldn't bin every policy inherited from John Smith.

The other key difference is that voters in 97 were enthusiastic about a Labour Government - I genuinely believe they aren't this time.  Labour's lead is built on quick sand, reliant on hatred for the Tories and not on voters choosing policies.  I'm still not sure that the next election is the shoe-in that some think - events this week show how fragile Labour really.

This is it in a nutshell. In 1997 young people were genuinely excited to vote for Blair. Even Corbyn was able to mobilise young people in England, but Sir Keith has no principles nor charisma and certainly no policies to enthuse anyone. I suspect that turnout will be an all time low and a Labour landslide is far from certain 

[scottsdad]

Starmer's week so far

[RuMoore]

l'm sure we'll see the consequences of this totally not online argument when Labour drop by 1 point in polling.

As people often like to compare the two and correctly say Labour target Tory voters let's not act like banning people for alleged antisemitism won't please the electorate. 

The correct take is that the left side of Labour will understandably be unhappy at Starmer but it won't scrape the sides when it comes to making Labour unelectable.

Edited February 15 by RuMoore

[Highlandmagar]

So Labour win both Tory sests in by elections. Shows the Tory voters are happy with Starmers Tories.

[Boo Khaki]

28.5% swing in Wellingborough, Tory vote collapsed, down 39.6%. I think a small part of that, though, will be disgust among even die-hard Tories that the local party showed complete contempt for the fact Bone had been recalled by nominating his girlfriend, who, IIRC, was at one point his affair partner that he left his ex-wife for.

I think we can pretty much rule out any notion of a hung parliament, because it looks like it's going to be a simple question of how large the Labour landslide will be. I'm no fan of Starmer or Labour, but I hope as many of these repugnant Tory shits are emptied as possible, for no other reason than the sheer joy it will elicit watching them lose their seats on live TV.

[Highlandmagar]

40 minutes ago, Boo Khaki said:

28.5% swing in Wellingborough, Tory vote collapsed, down 39.6%. I think a small part of that, though, will be disgust among even die-hard Tories that the local party showed complete contempt for the fact Bone had been recalled by nominating his girlfriend, who, IIRC, was at one point his affair partner that he left his ex-wife for.

I think we can pretty much rule out any notion of a hung parliament, because it looks like it's going to be a simple question of how large the Labour landslide will be. I'm no fan of Starmer or Labour, but I hope as many of these repugnant Tory shits are emptied as possible, for no other reason than the sheer joy it will elicit watching them lose their seats on live TV.

I have accepted that Labour will have a majority at the next GE (unfortunately).

It depends on the size of the majority.

I just pray that Scotland provides very little of that majority.

 

 

[dirty dingus]

Labours new election slogan. We'll protect you....From us.

[Dan Steele]

I'm not sure who would be the more stupid here - Scottish voters believing this or Sarwar for saying it. 

Scotland will be at the heart of the next UK government if Labour are elected, Anas Sarwar has said.

[Salt n Vinegar]

2 hours ago, dirty dingus said:

Labours new election slogan. We'll protect you....From us.

Now yer talkin'!

" We'll protect you....From us.". Fekkin eejit.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

I think that who wins the next GE is becoming increasingly secondary to the magnitude of the task which awaits them; in some aspects it's almost beyond conventional politics.  Perhaps it may even be time for a Government of national unity.

I don't say that lightly either.  Take Brexit for example.  Inflicted on a false prospectus by the Tories, and now completely blanked by a craven Labour party.  Only this week there was the latest in a series of damning reports, this  time from Goldman Sachs (I know ...), highlighting how disastrous this has been for the UK economy.

This is but one of a range of major issues which needs to be addressed in a manner which can't happen properly in the normal bearpit of partisan politics.

 

[Lurkst]

5 hours ago, dirty dingus said:

Labours new election slogan. We'll protect you....From us.

 

[DrewDon]

On 13/02/2024 at 11:30, HTG said:

 

Oh dear. 

 

 

I haven't checked, but I would be shocked if this bloke had not followed the 'South of England (probably London) public school > Oxbridge > Labour adviser' path.

Some of the worst people in British politics, sadly. Many such cases!