What is the point of Labour ?

[NotThePars]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

3 hours ago, NotThePars said:

 
It's just really amusing to watch brain dead liberals that weaponised a poor understanding of identity politics for the past 4 years suddenly volte-facing when the socialist candidate is a woman from a working-class background. 

f**k me is Lisa nandy the most left wing candidate? That might be the most depressing thing I've read on here.

 

Rebecca Long-Bailey. Nandy's more Blue Labour. 

[Bully Wee Villa]

On 21/01/2020 at 17:41, Theroadlesstravelled said:

A depressing list of losers.

This is why Labour are terrible. Their political  utopia was the 1980s USSR.

This post belongs in a Gulag, tbh. Utter nonsense.

[pandarilla]

 
Rebecca Long-Bailey. Nandy's more Blue Labour. 

Ahh ok. I've not made my mind up on long bailey. But nandy is a train wreck.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 
Rebecca Long-Bailey. Nandy's more Blue Labour. 

Ahh ok. I've not made my mind up on long bailey. But nandy is a train wreck.

Long Bailey would be another disaster. The final nail in the coffin of the Labour Party. 

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, pandarilla said:

1 hour ago, NotThePars said:

 
Rebecca Long-Bailey. Nandy's more Blue Labour. 

Ahh ok. I've not made my mind up on long bailey. But nandy is a train wreck.

Have been enjoying the usual suspects that cared so much about misogyny and anti-semitism painting Long-Bailey as a puppet being manipulated behind the scenes by Lansman. I'd call it a dog-whistle but it's more an airhorn.

[pandarilla]

Until the LP find the middle road as Blair did and shake off the far left tag they will remain in the wilderness and if not careful will slip from the 3rd largest party in Scotland to 5th behind the Greens.
They also need to urgently disassociate themselves from Westminster and become a wholly Scottish party.

Their situation in Scotland is completely different to that of England and Wales. And the far left tag has been put on by the right wing press.

E.g the majority in this country support renationalising the railways. Bolsheviks everywhere.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, SandyCromarty said:

Until the LP find the middle road as Blair did and shake off the far left tag they will remain in the wilderness and if not careful will slip from the 3rd largest party in Scotland to 5th behind the Greens.

They also need to urgently disassociate themselves from Westminster and become a wholly Scottish party.

Which ‘left wing’ policies do the general public disagree with?

[Fullerene]

35 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

Which ‘left wing’ policies do the general public disagree with?

Dogmatism.  It's crap.

For example. Nationalising the railways?  I don't have problem with that.  Maybe it is solution.  Maybe it is not.

At the moment there are politicians saying obviously yes and others saying obviously no.  Very few in between.

I think the general public would be happy with a politician who would happily go either way - as long as the railways get better.

Does such a politician exist?

[Granny Danger]

34 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Dogmatism.  It's crap.

For example. Nationalising the railways?  I don't have problem with that.  Maybe it is solution.  Maybe it is not.

At the moment there are politicians saying obviously yes and others saying obviously no.  Very few in between.

I think the general public would be happy with a politician who would happily go either way - as long as the railways get better.

Does such a politician exist?

Dogmatism isn’t a policy.

 

[NotThePars]

40 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Dogmatism.  It's crap.

For example. Nationalising the railways?  I don't have problem with that.  Maybe it is solution.  Maybe it is not.

At the moment there are politicians saying obviously yes and others saying obviously no.  Very few in between.

I think the general public would be happy with a politician who would happily go either way - as long as the railways get better.

Does such a politician exist?

 

This appears to be a sincere wish for that piss take of the Lib Dems that goes along the lines of "these are my principles... And if you don't like them, I have others."

[Fullerene]

18 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

This appears to be a sincere wish for that piss take of the Lib Dems that goes along the lines of "these are my principles... And if you don't like them, I have others."

The original question was what left wing policies do the general public object to.

Perfectly good question because the general public actually agree with a lot of things that Jeremy Corbyn advocates but for some reason they also don't agree with Jeremy Corbyn.

Seems an obvious contradiction there.

You can go down the route of conspiracy theory and paranoia but I don't.

So what explains this? 

I suspect it is the idea that Jeremy Corbyn will not budge on anything.  That the world today is identical to what it was 20, 30 or 40 years ago and the same solutions will suffice.

Maybe unfair.  Maybe untrue.  But that is why some people are opposed to him.

 

[pandarilla]

Conspiracy theory and paranoia? Tell me you're not referring to the media witch hunt with that phrase? Surely not.

It was one of the most bare faced take downs in British political history. The IRA-supporting, Russia- backed anti-Semite who hates Britain because he wore the wrong coat to the cenotaph.

Don't get me wrong, I also think there are other reasons why folk didn't want him to be pm - and you certainly mention one of them - but there is nothing paranoid about thinking the right wing press did a hatchet job on him.

[sophia]

7 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Conspiracy theory and paranoia? Tell me you're not referring to the media witch hunt with that phrase? Surely not.

It was one of the most bare faced take downs in British political history. The IRA-supporting, Russia- backed anti-Semite who hates Britain because he wore the wrong coat to the cenotaph.

Don't get me wrong, I also think there are other reasons why folk didn't want him to be pm - and you certainly mention one of them - but there is nothing paranoid about thinking the right wing press did a hatchet job on him.

He was incredible.

Getting cheers and chants at Glastonbury is one thing, being coherent to other cohorts is quite another.

He promised to nationalise electricity distribution. That's distribution, not retail.

I can think of lots in 2020 that needs to be fixed but echoes of the CEGB and 19canteen would have dissuaded many and anyone in the industry would quite rightly be spooked.

Go through the manifesto and consider how many others would be similarly put off.

 

 

[Fullerene]

51 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

Conspiracy theory and paranoia? Tell me you're not referring to the media witch hunt with that phrase? Surely not.

It was one of the most bare faced take downs in British political history. The IRA-supporting, Russia- backed anti-Semite who hates Britain because he wore the wrong coat to the cenotaph.

Don't get me wrong, I also think there are other reasons why folk didn't want him to be pm - and you certainly mention one of them - but there is nothing paranoid about thinking the right wing press did a hatchet job on him.

.. and they will do hatchet job on whoever comes next.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

 
Rebecca Long-Bailey. Nandy's more Blue Labour. 

Nandy is a Jess Phillips who hasn't got the arse to upset anyone. A total empty shirt (blouse?).

[Granny Danger]

27 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Those that made the traditional Labour voting general public in northern english constituencies to vote for the conservatives, the defeat was immense.

Just as it has been for Labour in Scotland. 

So no specifics?  Gotcha.

[welshbairn]

Wholesale nationalisation wasn't on top of most potential Labour voters priorities, they failed to persuade how they would pay for it, and it was easy for the opposition to scare about potential harm to pension funds. They should have concentrated on practical plans to improve peoples lives rather than ideological crusades that most people don't care about. For instance, if they had promised to restore women's pensions from the start instead of as an uncosted add on after already committing to squillions of other spending promises, they could easily picked up a few hundred thousand votes.

 

 

[NotThePars]

Or they were wrong footed on Brexit and spent another two years on the back foot internally attempting to compromise with a PLP base that were hostile to the leadership making them look weak, ineffectual and incapable of delivering their manifesto. Which is probably true. I, and plenty of other people I know in the party, were not confident of the party implementing its agenda in the face of such hostility but it’s a moot point now.

Everyone in the leadership (Jess Phillips self-involved narcissism aside) are all trying to position themselves as the best placed to take Corbyn’s policies and give them an electable face cause even Starmer recognises that the policies are generally popular even if the leadership wasn’t.

[sophia]

9 hours ago, sophia said:

He was incredible.

Getting cheers and chants at Glastonbury is one thing, being coherent to other cohorts is quite another.

He promised to nationalise electricity distribution. That's distribution, not retail.

I can think of lots in 2020 that needs to be fixed but echoes of the CEGB and 19canteen would have dissuaded many and anyone in the industry would quite rightly be spooked.

Go through the manifesto and consider how many others would be similarly put off.

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

So no specifics?  Gotcha.

 

please see specific above

[Malky3]

2 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Wholesale nationalisation wasn't on top of most potential Labour voters priorities, they failed to persuade how they would pay for it, and it was easy for the opposition to scare about potential harm to pension funds. They should have concentrated on practical plans to improve peoples lives rather than ideological crusades that most people don't care about. For instance, if they had promised to restore women's pensions from the start instead of as an uncosted add on after already committing to squillions of other spending promises, they could easily picked up a few hundred thousand votes.

Indeed it wasn't. What was at the top of most of the voters priorities was getting Brexit done and getting back to some semblance of political stability and economic certainty as quickly as possible. The Lib Dems and the Labour Party were decimated by their failure to see the growing impatience of the electorate at the way they were trying to frustrate the result of the referendum in 2016. 

I don't think the plight of the waspi women has much sympathy around the country other than with those who were directly affected. Labour Central Office was by that time just grasping around looking for issues that they thought might score them a pile of votes.