What is the point of Labour ?

[DublinMagyar]

There was a lot more than that in the Labour manifesto last year and more policies announced at the conference. Labour have set out a left wing vision to rebalance society back towards the interests of ordinary people. The SNP gave us the Growth Commission.
The SNP get by on managerial competence at Holyrood but they are being left behind in terms of envisioning a better society.
 
 

Which is why Scotland needs independence and a truly autonomous left wing alternative/Labour party that will/can act in the best interests of the people of Scotland

[Alan Stubbs]

Last time H_B was indulging his stauner for Morningside was in the 2015 classic "don't blame me I voted Yes!".

21 hours ago, Detournement said:

No. I mean recognising that there are conflicting class interests in Scotland.

A single mother on benefits in Salcoats doesn't have the same interests as a banker from Morningside.

 

On 08/06/2015 at 12:19, H_B said:

Unfortunately for those who are actually eligible for CTR, those on no or low income, the CT freeze by the Scottish Government, gifting Morningside mansion owners with thousands of pounds over the freeze period, whilst they suffer reduced services, is a real blow to their social conditions.

The SNP fanboys were weren't acknowledging the facts back then either, the b*****ds.

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

It's telling that the SNP fanboys can't engage with any Labour policies post October 2015.

 

On 08/06/2015 at 07:32, H_B said:

I don't really see why SNP fanboys don't just acknowledge this and move on. Any credible party needs to appeal across the board. The SNP do. Giving handouts to the middle classes is one of the reasons they've been so popular .

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.php?/search/&q=morningside&author=H_B&sortby=newest

3 hours ago, Detournement said:

That's not true at all. If a Labour government legislates properly then it's very difficult to erase those achievements. That's why we still have the NHS and an existing welfare system.

I also think you are being very naive if you think Scotland has less significantly less ingrained inequalities than the UK as a whole. Independence would be followed by the need to fight the same fights which are currently being fought on a UK level. In an independent Scotland you would immediately see owners of capital making huge efforts to establish a strong right wing presence in the media, civil service and society which would join forces with the Growth Commission/Third Way people in the SNP.

I voted Yes in 2014 because it looked like the best route to socialism but things have changed since then. Now I think that England has actually moved further to the left than Scotland due to being more exposed to neoliberalism and services being completely fucked due to underfunding combined with population explosion. If you watched or followed the Labour Party conference it's clear where the energy and drive for a more progressive society lies at the moment.

 

No you didn't.

[Detournement]

I definitely did. Trust me i'm not from Falkirk and my name's not Anthony.

The council tax freeze is another good example of the SNP's faux left, Blairite triangulation. Does anyone really believe it wasn't regressive?

 

[HTG]

The Labour Party chairman made it clear last week that he wants me eradicated. "Eradicated". 

Have a look at the definition of the word.

I'll deal with what needs to happen in this country in terms of equality of opportunity once c***s like that no longer have a say on the matter. 

Labour spent generations ripping the shite out of Scotland. They can f**k right off. 

HB - there is no point to Labour in Scotland. Their visceral hatred of the SNP is not based on the betterment of society or they would never have advocated voting Tory at the last election. They just don't like their grass being cut. 

Skunks.

[BawWatchin]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I definitely did. Trust me i'm not from Falkirk and my name's not Anthony.

We believe you.

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

The council tax freeze is another good example of the SNP's faux left, Blairite triangulation. Does anyone really believe it wasn't regressive?

We unbelieve you. On your way HB.

[Detournement]

6 minutes ago, HTG said:

HB - there is no point to Labour in Scotland. Their visceral hatred of the SNP is not based on the betterment of society or they would never have advocated voting Tory at the last election. They just don't like their grass being cut. 

 

Antagonism towards the SNP is due to legitimate working class disaffection being routed into a nationalist project that is going nowhere and whose leadership are clearly opposed to socialism. I agree that Lavery isn't the most articulate person and it was a poor choice of words.

I'm not HB and it says everything about the flimsy ground that people trying to defend the SNP from the left find themselves on that the need to come out with this pish. The SNP set out their vision for an independent Scotland in the Growth Commission and made it plain whose interests they are looking after.

[BawWatchin]

8 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Antagonism towards the SNP is due to legitimate working class disaffection being routed into a nationalist project that is going nowhere and whose leadership are clearly opposed to socialism. I agree that Lavery isn't the most articulate person and it was a poor choice of words.

I'm not HB and it says everything about the flimsy ground that people trying to defend the SNP from the left find themselves on that the need to come out with this pish. The SNP set out their vision for an independent Scotland in the Growth Commission and made it plain whose interests they are looking after.

Hmm, a nationalist project that's going nowhere..... nothing at all like Labours British nationalist project that's eh..... going nowhere.

[HTG]

22 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Antagonism towards the SNP is due to legitimate working class disaffection being routed into a nationalist project ...

Total and utter shite.  

Labour advocated voting Tory at the last election. 

Prominent Labour folk said they'd vote to stay in the union even if it made the people of Scotland worse off. 

When presented with evidence that the SNP were implementing policies for the betterment of Scotland, Foulkes accused them of doing it on purpose. 

Labour are charlatans and your socialist worker stuff is pie in the sky pish.

Edited October 3, 2018 by HTG

[NotThePars]

I wouldn’t say it’s pie in the sky pish as there’s clearly a powerful current in the party that are ideologically committed to leftist politics but there’s also a strong entrenched reactionary bloc that are indistinguishable from the Conservatives on tons of policy and have had pretty much decades to alienate pretty much everyone who’s come into contact with them. The worst part is the constant complaints about “Momentum purges” because the party would be a lot better if they had done even a tenth of the shit the hysterical press had claimed they were doing.

[HTG]

3 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I wouldn’t say it’s pie in the sky pish as there’s clearly a powerful current in the party that are ideologically committed to leftist politics but there’s also a strong entrenched reactionary bloc that are indistinguishable from the Conservatives on tons of policy and have had pretty much decades to alienate pretty much everyone who’s come into contact with them. The worst part is the constant complaints about “Momentum purges” because the party would be a lot better if they had done even a tenth of the shit the hysterical press had claimed they were doing.

Ok - there has been a shift in very recent times. I'm still calling utter shite on "working class disaffection" with the SNP. If you're a disaffected working class person, why would you vote for a party that spends far more time in opposition than it does in power as a result of how people vote in another country?

For umpteen decades now, Scotland has voted left of centre. If anyone genuinely wants to improve the lot of the working class in Scotland they need to vote for independence first.  

Otherwise crack on and put your trust in the people who consistently vote Tory. No contradiction there at all ...

Labour can become a thing again in Scotland once we're sorting out a multi-party Scottish state. Until then they're going to be hand in glove with Ruth because, above all, the apron is what counts. 

[git-intae-thum]

3 minutes ago, HTG said:

Ok - there has been a shift in very recent times. I'm still calling utter shite on "working class disaffection" with the SNP. If you're a disaffected working class person, why would you vote for a party that spends far more time in opposition than it does in power as a result of how people vote in another country?

For umpteen decades now, Scotland has voted left of centre. If anyone genuinely wants to improve the lot of the working class in Scotland they need to vote for independence first.  

Otherwise crack on and put your trust in the people who consistently vote Tory. No contradiction there at all ...

Labour can become a thing again in Scotland once we're sorting out a multi-party Scottish state. Until then they're going to be hand in glove with Ruth because, above all, the apron is what counts. 

Yip....long ago the labour party in Scotland placed British nationalism above socialism.....took a long time and a referendum campaign for most folk to realise it...but they have.

[Slavoj Žižek]

17 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I wouldn’t say it’s pie in the sky pish as there’s clearly a powerful current in the party that are ideologically committed to leftist politics but there’s also a strong entrenched reactionary bloc that are indistinguishable from the Conservatives on tons of policy and have had pretty much decades to alienate pretty much everyone who’s come into contact with them. The worst part is the constant complaints about “Momentum purges” because the party would be a lot better if they had done even a tenth of the shit the hysterical press had claimed they were doing.

A great post:

Here is a list of socialist policies that Labour introduced during Blair’s tenure:

[I know some of us were still on step-mummy’s teat in 1997]

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

I could go on...

TL:DR

The point of the Labour party is socialism, solidarity and equality of opportunity.

If you disagree then you are LITERALLY HITLER

 

 

[git-intae-thum]

Godwins law....you lose.

[BawWatchin]

12 minutes ago, Slavoj Žižek said:

A great post:

Here is a list of socialist policies that Labour introduced during Blair’s tenure:

[I know some of us were still on step-mummy’s teat in 1997]

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

 

2. Low mortgage rates.

 

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

 

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

 

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

 

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

 

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

 

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

 

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

 

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

 

11. 85,000 more nurses.

 

12. 32,000 more doctors.

 

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

 

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

 

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

 

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

 

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

 

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

 

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

 

20. Record number of students in higher education.

 

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

 

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

 

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

 

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

 

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

 

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales

 

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

 

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

 

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

 

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

 

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

 

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

 

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

 

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

 

35. Banned fox hunting.

 

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

 

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

 

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

 

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

 

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

 

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

 

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

 

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

 

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

 

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

 

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

 

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

 

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

 

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

 

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

 

 

I could go on...

TL:DR

The point of the Labour party is socialism, solidarity and equality of opportunity.

If you disagree then you are LITERALLY HITLER

 

 

 

Great tactic. Put together a post where there is far too much BS to debunk, that nobody will even bother.

[Slavoj Žižek]

Just now, BawWatchin said:

Great tactic. Put together a post where there is far too much BS to debunk, that nobody will even bother.

Settle down Lewis.

[NotThePars]

Settle down Lewis.

This is the least Zizekian you’ve sounded.

[Pocketman]

2 hours ago, HTG said:

Total and utter shite.  

Labour advocated voting Tory at the last election. 

Prominent Labour folk said they'd vote to stay in the union even if it made the people of Scotland worse off. 

the late great Jimmy Hood. Even if Scotland and his constituents were better off in an independent Scotland, he would still have voted against it.....

[O'Kelly Isley III]

A great post:
Here is a list of socialist policies that Labour introduced during Blair’s tenure:
[i know some of us were still on step-mummy’s teat in 1997]

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

I could go on... TL:DR
The point of the Labour party is socialism, solidarity and equality of opportunity.
If you disagree then you are LITERALLY HITLER

 
 

You forgot Fallujah.

[welshbairn]

 

1 hour ago, O'Kelly Isley III said:

 

You forgot Fallujah.

The British Army wouldn't have gone near Fallujah, getting kicked out of Basra and Helmund was embarrassing enough.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

A great post:
Here is a list of socialist policies that Labour introduced during Blair’s tenure:
[i know some of us were still on step-mummy’s teat in 1997]

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.

2. Low mortgage rates.

3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.

4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.

5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.

6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.

7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.

8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.

9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

10. Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.

11. 85,000 more nurses.

12. 32,000 more doctors.

13. Brought back matrons to hospital wards.

14. Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.

15. Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.

16. Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.

17. NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.

18. Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.

19. Restored city-wide government to London.

20. Record number of students in higher education.

21. Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.

22. Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.

23. Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

24. £200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.

25. On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

26. Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland/Scotland/Wales

27. Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.

28. All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.

29. A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.

30. 600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.

31. Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.

32. Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.

33. Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.

34. Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.

35. Banned fox hunting.

36. Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.

37. Free TV licences for over-75s.

38. Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.

39. Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.

40. Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.

41. New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.

42. Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.

43. Free eye test for over 60s.

44. More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.

45. Free entry to national museums and galleries.

46. Overseas aid budget more than doubled.

47. Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.

48. Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.

49. Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.

50. Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.

I could go on... TL:DR
The point of the Labour party is socialism, solidarity and equality of opportunity.
If you disagree then you are LITERALLY HITLER

 
 

^^^^ Blairite enemy of the people who’ll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes