LondonHMFC Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, rainbowrising said: That match displayed so many problems for England in so many areas, managed by a poor, naive manager. Covered up by "we had the game won, nothing to worry about..". A tournament that included one of the all time great WTF, last minute pointless penalty tackles against Romania that knocked them out. I take pride in knowing Engerland's failings, but I have little to no recollection of this game at all. Just looked at the group, I can remember the Figo goal in the first game, but do not remember them beating Germany whatsoever. Anyway, apologies for keeping this off topic, as you were. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, Stylish Kid said: Someone I used to know summed up the issue of perception with Ferguson well - At the same time England had Michael Owen breaking through and we needed our own "next big thing", and everyone jumped on the bazza train. But Owen got to play at Liverpool, surrounded by, and coached by, top level people. Ferguson's early career was in a very good Rangers team with two serious coaches, and he performed to that level. He really was a fantastic young player. I think the problem is that he should have left in 2001 or so, and he easily could have. Look at the career guys like Lee Bowyer had in the Premier League at that time. Ferguson was a better player than him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybhoy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I was in hospitality a few years ago at Stirling Albion v Clyde, sitting in the padded seats at Forthbank behind the dugout. A Clyde player was down injured and in the process of being replaced, Barry Ferguson was giving a bit of advice to the substitute as he was taking his tracksuit off, guy behind me shouts... 'Dinnae listen to him wee man, he's not even the best player to fall out his mum's fanny' Ferguson was absolutely raging and gesticulated some kind of 'Who the f**k said that come ahead' type gesture 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Flybhoy said: I was in hospitality a few years ago at Stirling Albion v Clyde, sitting in the padded seats at Forthbank behind the dugout. A Clyde player was down injured and in the process of being replaced, Barry Ferguson was giving a bit of advice to the substitute as he was taking his tracksuit off, guy behind me shouts... 'Dinnae listen to him wee man, he's not even the best player to fall out his mum's fanny' Ferguson was absolutely raging and gesticulated some kind of 'Who the f**k said that come ahead' type gesture I only remember the very end of Derek's time at Hearts, but he was an unquestionably good player. I think a Derek Ferguson with a brain would have done well. To be fair, I think he's a good pundit and someone who is well aware of his own failings. Barry, for all his sophistication as a player, seems like a daft ned. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybhoy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I'm 47 so began watching football in the early 80's when Derek Ferguson was breaking through at Rangers and he was a fantastic player, in my opinion better than his brother.. From memory Souness punted him over disciplinary issues, I'm pretty sure alcohol and some police run ins were behind it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Flybhoy said: I'm 47 so began watching football in the early 80's when Derek Ferguson was breaking through at Rangers and he was a fantastic player, in my opinion better than his brother.. From memory Souness punted him over disciplinary issues, I'm pretty sure alcohol and some police run ins were behind it. I heard the bit of OTB yesterday where Derek said that he'd only wanted to play for Rangers. Like Barry, I'd imagine this held him back. He was an intelligent midfielder with a good feel for the game. There's nothing wrong with just wanting to play for your team (especially when you already do) and it's ok to be a home-body, but, like his wee brother, you get the feeling he could have done better if someone had the arm round him early and explained his options to him. Delighted to see his boy doing well. As much as anything else, Derek Ferguson just comes across as a Scottish fitba enthusiast who is delighted to see his boy doing well. You'd need a heart of stone to not be in favour of that. Edited January 14 by VincentGuerin 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 17 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said: Someone I used to know summed up the issue of perception with Ferguson well - At the same time England had Michael Owen breaking through and we needed our own "next big thing", and everyone jumped on the bazza train. Wasn't that Mark Burchill? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said: I heardthe bit of OTB yesterday where Derek said that he'd only wanted to play for Rangers. Like Barry, I'd imagine this held him back. He was an intelligent midfielder with a good feel for the game. There's nothing wrong with just wanting to play for your team (especially when you already do) and it's ok to be a home-body, but, like his wee brother, you get the feeloing he culd have done better if someone had the arm round him early and explained his potions to him. Delighted to see his boy doing well. As much as anything else, Derek Ferguson just comes across as a Scottish fitba enthusiast who is delighted to see his boy doing well. You'd need a heart of stone to not be in favour of that. I know it's a low bar, but Derek Ferguson for me is the best person on sportsound these days. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: Wasn't that Mark Burchill? What a fucking goal he scored for the Hearts at Parkhead after Lee Miller's "no-look" pass in 2005. Some lad. 1 minute ago, Hoose Rice said: I know it's a low bar, but Derek Ferguson for me is the best person on sportsound these days. I agree. He is obviously enthusiastic and knows the teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, TheScarf said: England were half arsing that game. They could’ve gone up about 3 gears if it was required. That’s absolute nonsense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylish Kid Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 18 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: But Owen got to play at Liverpool, surrounded by, and coached by, top level people. Ferguson's early career was in a very good Rangers team with two serious coaches, and he performed to that level. He really was a fantastic young player. I think the problem is that he should have left in 2001 or so, and he easily could have. Look at the career guys like Lee Bowyer had in the Premier League at that time. Ferguson was a better player than him. Yes, but part of becoming a top player is the whole package... That includes making better decisions. And professionalism. Which particularly latter-day Barry didn't have. I still maintain that in a poor Scotland team he should have stood out, but he didn't. Never performed imo. That's a Scotland team that had Kenny Miller (a trier, but limited) up front for aeons. 12 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: I only remember the very end of Derek's time at Hearts, but he was an unquestionably good player. I think a Derek Ferguson with a brain would have done well. To be fair, I think he's a good pundit and someone who is well aware of his own failings. Barry, for all his sophistication as a player, seems like a daft ned. Yep. 3 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: Wasn't that Mark Burchill? Possibly. This is a conversation that happened a long time ago, and my mate was sure of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Derek Ferguson is a good example that no one really gives a shit about your partisan leanings on sportsound or any other media as long as you show enough enthusiasm, knowledge and respect for the whole league. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 4 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said: Yes, but part of becoming a top player is the whole package... That includes making better decisions. And professionalism. Which particularly latter-day Barry didn't have. I still maintain that in a poor Scotland team he should have stood out, but he didn't. Never performed imo. That's a Scotland team that had Kenny Miller (a trier, but limited) up front for aeons. Yep. Possibly. This is a conversation that happened a long time ago, and my mate was sure of it I think that's unfair in that it doesn't take into account the two roles. All Miller ever did in a Scotland jersey was run about. I know this is being reductive, but, if you'd put me on the park, I'd have run about. Miller did a job, but he wasn't "good". Ferguson was a smashing footballer. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, Stylish Kid said: Yes, but part of becoming a top player is the whole package... That includes making better decisions. And professionalism. Which particularly latter-day Barry didn't have. I still maintain that in a poor Scotland team he should have stood out, but he didn't. Never performed imo. That's a Scotland team that had Kenny Miller (a trier, but limited) up front for aeons. Yep. Possibly. This is a conversation that happened a long time ago, and my mate was sure of it Darren Fletcher was one of the best players in Europe at one point and never stood out for Scotland tbf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylish Kid Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I've also just remembered that my mate (whom sadly I am no longer in contact with due to my arseholery) referred to Ferguson as The Govan Crab 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: Darren Fletcher was one of the best players in Europe at one point and never stood out for Scotland tbf. I thought fletcher was very good for Scotland. Just thought he was a victim of expectations being set too high on account of him playing for fergie’s man united. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylish Kid Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: Darren Fletcher was one of the best players in Europe at one point and never stood out for Scotland tbf. I'm not sure Fletcher was a player who naturally stood out - tidy and dependable. I always felt he suffered because we tried to make him a no10 internationally when he played 6/8 domestically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: I thought fletcher was very good for Scotland. Just thought he was a victim of expectations being set too high on account of him playing for fergie’s man united. A classic example of loads of people not realising what someone is actually good at. Him, not you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flybhoy Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 7 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: Darren Fletcher was one of the best players in Europe at one point and never stood out for Scotland tbf. I recall this exact same point being made about Graeme Souness in his playing days. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Hoose Rice said: I disagree again, he was a much better player than McGregor or Gilmour. You're taking the piss now. Wee Billy has more talent in one foot than Barry had in two. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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