RandomGuy. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Although, I am aware McLeish still thinks it's 2008, and probably think MacDonald is still a promising youngster . -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 45 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Considering Christie gets a call up based on the past month, logic would dictate Clark should get one based on the last month. I'm just absolutely staggered he can be ignored. There's zero logic behind calling MacDonald up, he's no better than Clark, 6 years older, has no International experience, has no International future. Whoever he selected for this role is unlikely to play a minute regardless, why call up someone who'll never benefit from the call up? At least Clark could learn something from it and/or get used to it before his inevitable raft of call ups once he leaves us to the numerous Championship clubs who are watching him. It's absolutely shite that Saints can, easily, be one of the best Scottish teams in the past decade, with a core of Scottish players, and get completely blanked by manager after manger, to the point where the form keeper in the league is ignored to call up a thirty two year old playing for a team a couple of points better off. Seething. Agree that neither will play a minute so, with that in mind, what's the point in calling up Clark? To give him experience of a squad? Well there's a few reasons why not to do that right now. We got two important games coming up where McLeish wants a settled/happy squad. McDonald has played with some of the current squad while in the U21s, he's been in a coupla squads as a third choice keeper as well I think?, and played with current squad members at Hearts and Kilmarnock. He'll fit in a lot easier without having to be "inducted" and, although it's unlikely Clark is going to suddenly turn into '97 era Edmundo, there's always a gamble a new player might be a disruptive influence. Clark can come in when there's a friendly to be played. Then he can even get some game time to go along with his call up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Agree that neither will play a minute so, with that in mind, what's the point in calling up Clark? To give him experience of a squad? Well there's a few reasons why not to do that right now. We got two important games coming up where McLeish wants a settled/happy squad. McDonald has played with some of the current squad while in the U21s, he's been in a coupla squads as a third choice keeper as well I think?, and played with current squad members at Hearts and Kilmarnock. He'll fit in a lot easier without having to be "inducted" and, although it's unlikely Clark is going to suddenly turn into '97 era Edmundo, there's always a gamble a new player might be a disruptive influence. Clark can come in when there's a friendly to be played. Then he can even get some game time to go along with his call up. That's absolutely desperate stuff. MacDonald last played in the U21s in 2008 and the only players he's played with at club level in the past decade will be O'Donnell. Can't remember him being called up more than once before either. Clarks had over 100 senior appearances and never once even been hinted at as a "disruptive influence". -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, RandomGuy. said: That's absolutely desperate stuff. MacDonald last played in the U21s in 2008 and the only players he's played with at club level in the past decade will be O'Donnell. Can't remember him being called up more than once before either. Clarks had over 100 senior appearances and never once even been hinted at as a "disruptive influence". MacDonald played in the U21s when McLeish was manager of the national team so McLeish will be more aware of him and, I presume, other parts of the coaching staff will have as well. Over the last decade McDonald has shared squads with, I make it, six players in the squad. Makes sense to have someone who can come in and settle in with the squad right from the start than someone who will be a complete strangers to all of them. Either way imagine getting riled up because one average keeper got called up before another average keeper in the coveted 7th best goalkeeper in Scotland award. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: MacDonald played in the U21s when McLeish was manager of the national team so McLeish will be more aware of him and, I presume, other parts of the coaching staff will have as well. Over the last decade McDonald has shared squads with, I make it, six players in the squad. Makes sense to have someone who can come in and settle in with the squad right from the start than someone who will be a complete strangers to all of them. So we're basing call ups on who has the most mates in the squad? Lovely insight in to Scottish football right there, and a lovely message to send up and coming youngsters too. I'm not sure how MacDonald being mates with 6 out of 22 players means he'll "fit in" any better either. How many has he played with in the past five years? Edited November 9, 2018 by RandomGuy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: So we're basing call ups on who has the most mates in the squad? No. No one said that. On the other hand, however, should a person's temperament and character and ability to blend with the squad not also be a part of squad management? For such an inconsequential position as third choice goalkeeper (who is only being called up because of lack of game time/injuries/call offs to four superior goalkeepers) then it makes sense to go with the goalkeeper who has shown previous ability to work with an international squad and who has more connection with the rest of the squad. With all else being equal this is as good a reason as any. 17 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: How many has he played with in the past five years? Three? I think. Maybe two. Two more than Clark in any case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: No. No one said that. On the other hand, however, should a person's temperament and character and ability to blend with the squad not also be a part of squad management? For such an inconsequential position as third choice goalkeeper (who is only being called up because of lack of game time/injuries/call offs to four superior goalkeepers) then it makes sense to go with the goalkeeper who has shown previous ability to work with an international squad and who has more connection with the rest of the squad. With all else being equal this is as good a reason as any. Three? I think. Maybe two. Two more than Clark in any case. Jamie MacDonald has never been in the senior Scotland squad, according to FitbaStats.com, so how has he "shown ability to work with an International squad" before? Or are you taking being in the U21 squad a full decade ago as important? And he's played with 2 players over the past five years, yet is going to have a far better role in the squad than someone with 0? Honestly? You're scraping shite out your arsehole here, I'm afraid. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Jamie MacDonald has never been in the senior Scotland squad, according to FitbaStats.com, so how has he "shown ability to work with an International squad" before? Or are you taking being in the U21 squad a full decade ago as important? McLeish might well think so. Ask him. 5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: And he's played with 2 players over the past five years, yet is going to have a far better role in the squad than someone with 0? Honestly? Well it's more likely. He's also played alongside another four players. Maybe he's kept in touch with them who knows? Even if he's kept in touch with none of them he's more experienced and has more experience of switching clubs and fitting into a social group he's not used to within a squad. You asked why McLeish would rather call up McDonald. You ignored the basic facts (McDonald has conceded less goals, is playing for a better team, has been consistent over the last year, hasn't been dropped, just might be a better goalkeeper) and when secondary reasons regarding squad cohesion or professional and personal experience are considered you dismiss them as well. No one is saying they agree with these decisions, or the factors that caused these choices, just that they are there and may/may not have held a bearing in the manager's thinking. The truth is it's probably a combination of all those factors added to the fact that bringing Clark along would achieve nothing that wouldn't be better suited to a friendly match where he has a chance of playing a few minutes. Yet you appear to be absolutely beeling that Alex McLeish thinks Jamie McDonald is who he would rather have in goal over Zander Clark (if Craig Gordon, David Marshall, Allan McGregor, Scott Bain, Jon McGlauhlin and Jordan Archer aren't viable options). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: McLeish might well think so. Ask him. Well it's more likely. He's also played alongside another four players. Maybe he's kept in touch with them who knows? Even if he's kept in touch with none of them he's more experienced and has more experience of switching clubs and fitting into a social group he's not used to within a squad. You asked why McLeish would rather call up McDonald. You ignored the basic facts (McDonald has conceded less goals, is playing for a better team, has been consistent over the last year, hasn't been dropped, just might be a better goalkeeper) and when secondary reasons regarding squad cohesion or professional and personal experience are considered you dismiss them as well. No one is saying they agree with these decisions, or the factors that caused these choices, just that they are there and may/may not have held a bearing in the manager's thinking. The truth is it's probably a combination of all those factors added to the fact that bringing Clark along would achieve nothing that wouldn't be better suited to a friendly match where he has a chance of playing a few minutes. Yet you appear to be absolutely beeling that Alex McLeish thinks Jamie McDonald is who he would rather have in goal over Zander Clark (if Craig Gordon, David Marshall, Allan McGregor, Scott Bain, Jon McGlauhlin and Jordan Archer aren't viable options). I'm beeling that young players get overlooked for older ones based on arbitrary reasons like their relationships with managers and those in squad, rather than whether it'll benefit the player or future squad. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: I'm beeling that young players get overlooked for older ones based on arbitrary reasons like their relationships with managers and those in squad, rather than whether it'll benefit the player or future squad. Zander Clark is 26. He's not "young". You've been given reasons why his call up might help THIS squad. Something that helps THIS squad will help us qualify for the Euros via the Nations League, will give us a chance to play against a better calibre side in the next round of Nations League fixtures, will improve our world ranking, will do wonders for squad morale which can be carried over to the next squad. I think all of those things will benefit the future squad more than having Zander Clark being the goalkeeper who helps put the cones out 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 14 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Zander Clark is 26. He's not "young". You've been given reasons why his call up might help THIS squad. Something that helps THIS squad will help us qualify for the Euros via the Nations League, will give us a chance to play against a better calibre side in the next round of Nations League fixtures, will improve our world ranking, will do wonders for squad morale which can be carried over to the next squad. I think all of those things will benefit the future squad more than having Zander Clark being the goalkeeper who helps put the cones out I refuse to believe that McDonald is going to have any positive impact on the squad at all. Calling up Clark isn't going to make players perform worse. Clark is 5 years younger than any goalkeeper McLeish has called up, that's young enough for me to class him as one for the future. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Think Zander Clark is overrated tbh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Predictions:Craig Gordon to get injured over the weekend.McLeish to call up Scott Bain as his replacement.RandomGuy to spontaneously combust. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estragon Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 4 hours ago, Enigma said: Think Zander Clark is overrated tbh. He certainly is today. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 All this for a third choice 'keeper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estragon Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 33 minutes ago, accies1874 said: All this for a third choice 'keeper. Welcome to the meh derby mate. It's pathological. They hate everything we stand for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Saintee Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Zander Clark isn't that good IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eez-eh Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 I think most would agree Clark would be a better call-up, but getting your knickers twisted to such a degree over two average at best third choice keepers is a bit tragic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Tommy Wright aware of it too, hopefully more people speak out to help end this injustice. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Players admitting the don't see any International future while playing at Saints, which will harm our chances of keeping/signing young talent. This has to stop. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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